Josh Martin started to do his commitment to shop at the farmers market, but it didn't connect. I think we didn't connect it to his experience of the environment.

We decided to find a new commitment by connecting more intrinsically. We spoke on sustainability, nutrition, health, sports, and many things, him from the position of an entrepreneur former athlete, me from a troubleshooting perspective. The result was covering many topics, eventually leading to a new commitment. My read from his tone at the end is that the new one resonates more for him.

One of the main discoveries of this podcast is that with rare exception, everyone cares about the environment. What's separating most people from acting isn't a lack of facts or lists of "ten little things" they could do for the environment. The lack leadership, meaning the tools leaders use, especially connecting with their intrinsic motivations. In the case of the environment, everyone has intrinsic motivation.

Hitting people over the head with facts, numbers, and what to do devalues their intrinsic motivation. I find the opposite works better: listening, empathizing, stories, and such.

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597: Josh Martin, part 2: If at first you don't succeed . . .