Leanne on Demand Daily with Leanne Hughes 🌴278. Team Bonding vs Team Building vs Team Development feat. Phil Brown (Weekend Rewind)
This week I’m diving into team development and team dynamics with Phil Brown from High 5 Adventure. Remember those high-ropes days where the best part was the debrief? Same. Phil is the guy who designs those experiences—and, more importantly, the reflections that turn “fun” into behaviour change.
We jam on what happens after you graduate from being a first-time facilitator: Where’s the career progression? How do we explain “facilitation” to people outside our bubble? And how do we design activities that create real connection (not just a good selfie)?
Phil also gives a super useful way to categorise “team stuff”: bonding, building, developing—three different aims, timelines, and outcomes. Loved this distinction.
In this episode, we cover
- Bonding vs Building vs Developing: why language matters (and how to choose the right brief)
- Connection before content: making connection the content
- How to explain facilitation (and why “education” sometimes lands better)
- The golden opener: Phil’s go-to energiser “Jump In, Jump Out” (and how he tweaks it for distancing)
- Designing for emotion: facilitating feelings, not just activities
- Career pathways: staying in the game beyond the campfire years
- Pivoting to virtual without losing the adventure ethos
- Handling facilitation nerves (yes, they still show up—and that’s okay)
My favourite moments
- Phil’s “Harry Potter” analogy for our field (how to invite the muggles into the magic).
- Reframing adventure as “something new that nudges you into stretch, not panic.”
- The honesty around facilitator longevity and building a progression path so great people don’t leave the field.
Practical takeaways you can use tomorrow
- Start with one “golden activity” you can run in your sleep—add a dash of humour to melt the room.
- Don’t default to name games. Earn the right to intros by energising the group first.
- Label your offsites correctly: is it bonding (short vibe), building (single-day skills), or developing (multi-touch behaviour shift)?
- When selling your work, test “education” or “experiential” language if “facilitation” stalls the convo.
Timestamps
- 00:00 Welcome + my high-ropes confession
- 03:20 Phil’s start: England → US summer camps → adventure education
- 10:12 Connection before content (and why connection is content)
- 15:05 Team bonding vs building vs developing
- 22:18 Explaining “facilitation” so non-facilitators get it
- 30:44 Virtual pivots that still feel like adventure
- 36:10 The golden activity: “Jump In, Jump Out” (+ safety tweaks)
- 42:18 Nerves, humour, and showing up at 100%
- 48:50 Career progression: what’s next after “first-time”?
- 55:10 Where to find Phil + resources
Resources & links
- Phil’s organisation: High 5 Adventure — high5adventure.org
- Phil’s podcast: Vertical Playpen (experiential & adventure education deep dives)
- My free community: The Flipchart (Facebook group for facilitators—questions, icebreakers, tips)
- Activity mentioned: Jump In, Jump Out (searchable; adapt spacing for safety)
About my guest
Phil Brown is a Lead Trainer at High 5 Adventure (Vermont, USA). Originally from England, he discovered experiential education at US summer camps and now trains facilitators, educators, and teams across outdoor, school, and camp settings. He hosts the Vertical Playpen podcast.
Sign up for free for my best articles every week: Work Fame.
Show notes for every episode at https://podcast.leannehughes.com
P.S. Ready to take things up a level? Here are some ways I can help:
- Watch My Speaker Reel: Let's energise your next event.
- Get My Book: Design your workshops fast using The 2-Hour Workshop Blueprint.
Let's connect on all the channels:
Visit my website: leannehughes.com
Email me: hello@leannehughes.com
Would you like to deliver your own private podcast feed to your audience? Sign up for a free trial today at Hello Audio.