The Other Side of Things (E12) Jung and Shamanism with C. Michael Smith, Ph.D.

00:00 Introduction
01:15 Who is C. Michael Smith?
04:59 What is the Dialogic Method for Jung and Shamanism in Michael's work.
08:23 The ancient history behind understanding the world of Spirit
09:00 Jung's description of an archetypal possession and the need for exorcism
12:39 How Michael was drawn to this deep work of Jung and Shamanism 
14:02 Jung's Memories, Dreams and Reflections and Mircea Eliade's work on Shamanism
15:14 Michael's person connection to the Spirit World/Collective Unconscious
16:28 Michael's encounter with the Numinous 
17:04 Michael's Jungian Analyst told him he needed to find a shamanic teacher
18:18 His vision quest and finding his Daemon/Guardian Spirit and Guide
20:30 His first work with serious mental illness/archetypal possession
21:43 Shamanism as an archaic Depth Psychology 
22:30 Jung, "If I knew about Shamanism I wouldn't have spent so much time with alchemy."
25:30 Core Analysis and Psycho Shamanism in Michael's work.
26:12 The Psyche is a porous open system - connected to all reality which is a blessing and curse.
27:23 How to stay curious, compassionate, and open to these psychic numinous realities/entities.
28:30 The power of relationship, music, presence, symbol, chant, colorful ceremony in this work.
30:06 Michael's work with exorcism with severe cases, which he uses very rarely.
33:45 When Michael works with Severe Mental Illness uses greater family and psychiatric support.
35:00 Example of someone who was archetypally possessed and how he did an exorcism.
40:17 How do we help people shamanically swim in these waters instead of psychotically drowning.
41:30 "I'm in the business of working with the impossible, what other people say can't be healed."
42:30 One particularly powerful case of healing deep trauma through multiple de-possessions. 
43:36 Dealing with deep ancestral trauma inter-generationally.  
45:16 In Internal Family Systems you can have a Legacy Burden and Unattached Burden.  
47:09 Michael's take on Post-Modern Shamanism vs. Traditional Shamanism.
50:13 Michael's take on being a reconstructive Post-Modernist.
51:48 Michael's powerful use of shamanic work with a cancer patient.
56:19 Consciousness is fundamental as a shift from our tradition of materialistic reductionism.
58:52 Post-modern shamanism is updating itself with the newest findings in neuroscience and physics.
1:01:00 An N of 1 matters.
1:02:00 Advaita Vedanta and letting go of any attachment to any objects.
1:03:00 Our Avatar Bodies...
1:04:27 Eternity is in love with the productions of time.
1:06:00 Michael's sharing of Jung's story of the woman who lived on the moon and how he see's his own work with the defenses of the psyche. 
1:09:39 A shamanic correction to Jung's work - the extra step of ceremony - soul retrieval - inviting in what was giving up - not just extraction/de-possession/exorcism, but also welcoming back the essence of what was displaced. 
1:11:00 Your defense system is like a psychic immune system - those young parts of us. 
1:13:00 The being of the shamanic healer must live and respond from your open center. 
1:14:30 The center ultimately IS the heart. 
1:17:00 Jung was also a phenomenologist - and his sense of the divine was numinous.
1:20:00 The most powerful place to stand and for protection and healing is the heart...

In this profound episode, I sit down with clinical psychologist, medical anthropologist, and author C. Michael Smith, a world-renowned expert in Jungian psychology and shamanic healing. Together, we explore the fertile intersection of Jung’s depth psychology and indigenous shamanic traditions — both of which view healing as a soul-centered, symbolic, and relational process.

We dive into:
✨ How Jung's concept of the wounded healer echoes the shamanic initiation
✨ The parallels between soul retrieval and Jungian individuation
✨ The role of altered states, dreams, and active imagination in accessing inner wisdom
✨ The sacred importance of ritual, symbol, and myth in both systems
✨ How trauma, possession, and spiritual crisis are addressed in traditional vs. modern cultures
✨ And why reconnecting with the soul — personally and culturally — is more vital than ever

C. Michael Smith brings a rare integration of scholarship and lived experience. His seminal book Jung and Shamanism in Dialogue has influenced therapists, healers, and seekers worldwide.

This is a rich, timely conversation for anyone called to the deeper healing path, whether through psychotherapy, ceremony, or inner exploration.

Michael's book on Jung and Shamanism:
 https://www.amazon.com/Jung-Shamanism-Dialogue-Retrieving-Sacred-ebook/dp/B00I4GL9OI 
Michael's website:
https://crowsnestshamanism.com/blog/
Michael DeMaria's website: 
https://michaeldemaria.com/

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