Something we’re quite sure of: what makes a good in-app workout instructor. Something we’re quite unsure about: what our thirties are meant to look like in this day ‘n age. Kayleen Schaefer has many, many thoughts on the latter. Tune in and then dig into her new book But You’re Still So Young (yes, incredible title).

The on-demand fitness instructors who leap over the ridiculously high bar we’ve set: Melissa Wood of Melissa Wood Health, Coach Chris Bennett of the Nike Run Club app (a previous podcast guest!), Adriene Mishler of Yoga with Adriene (see also: this NYT Mag profile and this Reductress post about Benji the dog), and Robin Arzon and Matty Maggiacomo of the Peloton app.

Read Kayleen Schaefer’s wonderful But You’re Still So Young! And if you haven’t already gobbled up Text Me When You Get Home, maybe it’s your next book-club pick?

A few of Kayleen’s “You May Also Like” recs: The New Better Off by Courtney E. Martin, Anne Helen Petersen’s Buzzfeed piece on burnout and her book Can’t Even, and Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert (also endorsed by Bad on Paper).

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KIT at @athingortwohq, podcast@athingortwohq.com, and 833-632-5463, ok?

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YAY.

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