Conversations with Tyler Katherine Rundell on the Art of Words
Katherine Rundell, a celebrated children's author and fellow at All Souls College, shares her vibrant enthusiasm for poetry and adventure. She reveals her obsession with John Donne's intricate views on faith and suicide, and the unique intensity of 17th-century thought. Rundell discusses the thrilling yet risky experience of rooftop walking and why children should embrace mischief. She also offers insights into the political implications of literature for young readers and shares her love for quirky storytelling, including her favorite books and the beauty of sacred texts.
53:42
Early Donne Exposure
- Katherine Rundell's parents encouraged poetry memorization, even for poems beyond immediate comprehension.
- As a child, she was paid to memorize poems, including John Donne's works, displayed by the sink.
Donne's Religious Conversions
- John Donne, born Catholic during religious persecution, later became Dean of St. Paul's Cathedral, raising questions about the authenticity of his conversions.
- Rundell believes in the sincerity of both Donne's Catholicism and his Protestant conversion.
Donne's Views on Suicide
- Suicide was illegal and considered a sin during Donne's time, yet he was drawn to it.
- Donne's writing explored suicide's complexities, viewing it as both sinful and a shortcut to God.
Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode
Get the app 1 chevron_right 2 chevron_right 3 chevron_right 4 chevron_right 5 chevron_right 6 chevron_right 7 chevron_right
Intro
00:00 • 2min
Poetic Beliefs: The Legacy of John Donne
01:48 • 15min
Rooftop Reflections: Heightened Perspectives
17:06 • 4min
Lessons from Children's Literature
21:28 • 12min
Exploring Metaphysical Beauty and Vulnerability in Dunn's Poetry and Sermons
33:19 • 3min
Reflections on Upbringing and Writing
35:57 • 15min
The Literary Legacy of Sacred Texts
50:31 • 3min
Pseudo-Martyr and Ignatius His Conclave
Two Works by John Donne
John Donne
John Donne's 'Pseudo-Martyr' (1610) is a polemical prose tract that argues for English Roman Catholics to take the Oath of Allegiance to James I, contributing to the religious pamphlet wars of the time.
'Ignatius His Conclave' (1611) is a satirical work that mocks Jesuit evangelism, featuring St. Ignatius of Loyola in a fantastical narrative.
Rooftoppers
Katherine Rundell
Rooftoppers follows Sophie, a girl believed to be an orphan, as she searches for her mother in Paris.
Alongside Matteo and his network of rooftoppers, Sophie navigates the city's hidden spaces in a quest to find her mother before losing hope.
The book is praised for its imaginative storytelling and vivid depiction of Paris.
John Donne: Life, Mind and Art
John Carey
John Carey's 'John Donne: Life, Mind and Art' offers a deep exploration of the poet's inner world and artistic expression.
The book delves into Donne's metaphysical conceits and his unique blend of wit, paradox, and imagery, providing insights into his life as a poet, satirist, and Anglican priest.
Carey's work highlights Donne's mastery of combining disparate ideas into powerful metaphors, reflecting his innovative approach to poetry.
Why You Should Read Children's Books, Even Though You Aren't So Old and Wise
null
Katherine Rundell
Katherine Rundell's "Why You Should Read Children's Books" champions the power of children's literature for adults.
Rundell argues that the imaginative worlds and simple truths found in these books offer valuable insights and perspectives often lost in adulthood.
She highlights the importance of retaining a sense of wonder and possibility, crucial for navigating complex challenges.
The book encourages readers to rediscover the joy of reading and the transformative power of imagination.
It's a compelling case for the enduring relevance of children's literature, regardless of age.
I Capture the Castle
Dodie Smith
Set in 1934 England, 'I Capture the Castle' follows the journal entries of 17-year-old Cassandra Mortmain as she navigates her family's poverty and the arrival of two American brothers, Simon and Neil Cotton, who become entangled in their lives.
The novel explores themes of love, class, and identity through Cassandra's witty and poignant narrative.
Fire and Hemlock
Diana Wynne Jones
Fire and Hemlock is a captivating fantasy by Diana Wynne Jones, weaving together elements of mythology and romance.
The story follows Polly Whittacker as she uncovers a second set of memories involving her mysterious connection with Thomas Lynn, a cellist entangled in supernatural events.
Inspired by the Anglo-Scottish Border ballads 'Tam Lin' and 'Thomas the Rhymer', the novel explores themes of imagination, identity, and the power of storytelling.
Biathanatos
John Donne
Biathanatos, written by John Donne in 1608, presents a heterodox defense of suicide, using examples from the Bible to argue that it is not always sinful.
The book is structured into parts discussing natural, rational, and divine laws, concluding that while most suicides are sinful, they can be justified when done with charity and for God's glory.
Donne's work was not published during his lifetime due to its controversial nature.
Why You Should Read Children's Books, Even Though You Aren't So Old and Wise
null
Katherine Rundell
Katherine Rundell's "Why You Should Read Children's Books" champions the power of children's literature for adults.
Rundell argues that the imaginative worlds and simple truths found in these books offer valuable insights and perspectives often lost in adulthood.
She highlights the importance of retaining a sense of wonder and possibility, crucial for navigating complex challenges.
The book encourages readers to rediscover the joy of reading and the transformative power of imagination.
It's a compelling case for the enduring relevance of children's literature, regardless of age.
Super Infinite
A Life of John Donne
John Donne
Catherine Rundell's "Super Infinite" is a biography of John Donne, exploring his life as a poet and preacher.
The book delves into Donne's complex and often paradoxical writing style, highlighting his use of coded language and metaphors.
Rundell examines the historical context of Donne's work, emphasizing the risks associated with writing during a time of political and religious upheaval.
The biography also explores the posthumous publication of texts falsely attributed to Donne, contrasting his genuine work with imitations.
Rundell's biography offers a comprehensive look at Donne's life and literary contributions, showcasing his enduring influence on literature and culture.
Howl's Moving Castle
Diana Wynne Jones
In the magical land of Ingary, 18-year-old Sophie Hatter, the eldest of three sisters, is cursed by the Witch of the Waste and transformed into an old crone.
Sophie leaves her family's hat shop and finds work as a cleaning lady for the wizard Howl, who lives in a magical moving castle.
She forms a bargain with Howl's fire demon, Calcifer, to break the contract between Howl and Calcifer in exchange for returning her to her youthful form.
Along the way, Sophie navigates Howl's complex personality, the Witch of the Waste's dark curse, and the intricacies of magic and love in a world where fairytale tropes are a part of everyday life.
King James Version of the Bible
Authorized Version
Translated by the King James translators
The King James Version (KJV) of the Bible is a significant literary and theological work that was published in 1611.
It was translated by a group of scholars commissioned by King James VI and I to create a unified English translation for the Church of England.
The KJV includes 39 books of the Old Testament, 14 books of the Apocrypha, and 27 books of the New Testament.
It is noted for its 'majesty of style' and has been a driving force in shaping English culture and the English-speaking world.
The translation was based on the Textus Receptus for the New Testament, the Masoretic Text for the Old Testament, and the Septuagint and Vulgate for the Apocrypha.
The KJV has undergone several revisions since its initial publication, with the most significant revision occurring in 1769.
The Railway Children
Edith Nesbit
The story follows Roberta, Peter, and Phyllis, who are forced to leave their comfortable suburban home in London and move to 'The Three Chimneys', a smaller house near a railway line in the countryside, after their father is imprisoned on false charges of espionage.
The children befriend the railway staff and an Old Gentleman who regularly takes the 9:15 train.
They have several adventures, including preventing a train disaster, rescuing a schoolboy with a broken leg, and helping a Russian exile find his family.
The Old Gentleman eventually helps prove their father's innocence, leading to the family's reunion.
The book emphasizes themes of family unity, kindness, and courage in the face of adversity.
The metamorphosis
Franz Kafka
The Metamorphosis tells the story of Gregor Samsa, a traveling salesman who wakes up to find himself transformed into a huge insect.
The novella delves into the themes of alienation, as Gregor becomes physically and emotionally isolated from his family and society.
Despite his new form, Gregor retains his human thoughts and feelings, leading to a profound internal conflict.
The story also explores the impact of Gregor's transformation on his family, particularly his sister Grete, who undergoes her own metamorphosis from a girl to a woman.
The novella is a classic example of literary modernism, examining the absurdity and meaninglessness of modern life.
A Little Princess
Frances Hodgson Burnett
The novel follows Sara Crewe, a seven-year-old English girl living in India with her wealthy father.
She is sent to a boarding school in London where she is treated like royalty due to her father's wealth.
However, her life takes a drastic turn when her father dies and she loses her fortune.
Despite being reduced to a scullery maid, Sara uses her imagination and kindness to cope with her new circumstances.
The story culminates with the discovery that her father's friend, Mr. Carrisford, has been searching for her to restore her rightful inheritance, transforming her life once again.
Book of Common Prayer
Church of England Staff
The Book of Common Prayer is a foundational liturgical text of the Anglican Communion.
First published in 1549 during the reign of Edward VI, it was compiled primarily by Thomas Cranmer, Archbishop of Canterbury.
The book includes complete forms of service for daily and Sunday worship, such as Morning and Evening Prayer, the Litany, Holy Communion, and services for baptism, confirmation, marriage, visitation of the sick, and burial.
It has undergone several revisions, notably in 1552, 1559, 1604, and 1662, with the 1662 version remaining the standard for most Anglican churches.
The book is known for its beautiful language and its role in shaping Anglican doctrine and worship.
The fairy queen
Edmund Spenser
Edmund Spenser's *The Faerie Queene* is an epic poem celebrating Queen Elizabeth I and exploring various virtues through allegorical characters.
It's known for its complex narrative structure, rich imagery, and exploration of moral and political themes.
The poem's influence on later literature is significant, and its intricate world-building continues to fascinate readers.
Its blend of romance, adventure, and moral instruction makes it a landmark work of English literature.
Devil-Land
England Under Siege, 1588-1688
Dr Clare Jackson
This book by Clare Jackson delves into the complex and tumultuous period of English history from 1588 to 1688.
It covers significant events such as the execution of Mary Queen of Scots, the English Civil War, the regicide of Charles I, and the Glorious Revolution.
The narrative highlights the instability, religious extremism, power struggles, and violent rebellions that characterized this era, as well as England's intricate and often conflicted relationships with European nations like France, Spain, and the Dutch.
Jackson's account provides a detailed and original perspective on a century that fundamentally altered England's destiny and its constitutional arrangements.
Old Possum's book of practical cats
T. S. Eliot
Published in 1939, this book is a collection of light verse poems by T.S.
Eliot, written under the pseudonym 'Old Possum'.
The poems were originally included in letters to his godchildren and feature a variety of feline characters, each with unique personalities and stories.
The book has been the basis for Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical 'Cats' and has been illustrated by several artists, including Nicolas Bentley, Edward Gorey, Axel Scheffler, and Rebecca Ashdown.
The pilgrim's progress
Geoffrey Murray
The Pilgrim's Progress is a Christian allegory that follows the journey of Christian, a man burdened by his sin, as he travels from the City of Destruction to the Celestial City.
Along the way, he encounters various characters and obstacles that symbolize spiritual realities.
The book is presented as a dream sequence and is divided into two parts, the second part following Christian's wife, Christiana, and her children on a similar journey.
The narrative is rich in biblical references and explores themes of redemption, faith, and perseverance.
Madame Bovary
Gustave Flaubert
Published in 1857, 'Madame Bovary' is a seminal work of literary realism that tells the story of Emma Bovary, a beautiful and intelligent young woman who marries Charles Bovary, a dull and unambitious doctor.
Emma's life is marked by boredom, romantic fantasies, and a series of ill-fated love affairs with men like Rodolphe and Léon.
Her inability to distinguish between her romantic ideals and the harsh realities of her life leads to financial ruin, public scandal, and ultimately, her tragic demise.
The novel is renowned for its masterful writing, detailed psychological insights, and its critique of bourgeois provincial life.
101 Dalmatians
Dodie Smith
Katherine Rundell is, in a word, enthusiastic. She’s enthusiastic about John Donne. She’s enthusiastic about walking along rooftops. She’s enthusiastic about words, and stories, and food. She has often started her morning with a cartwheel and is currently learning to fly a small plane. A prolific writer, her many children’s books aim to instill the sense of discovery she still remembers from her own unruly childhood adventures—and remind adults of the astonishment that still awaits them.
She joined Tyler to discuss how she became obsessed with John Donne, the power of memorizing poetry, the political implications of suicide in the 17th century, the new evidence of Donne’s faith, the contagious intensity of thought in 17th century British life, the effect of the plague on national consciousness, the brutality of boys’ schooling, the thrills and dangers of rooftop walking, why children should be more mischievous, why she’d like to lower the voting age to 16, her favorite UK bookshop, the wonderful weirdness of Diana Wynne Jones, why she has at least one joke about Belgium in every book, what T.S. Eliot missed about John Donne, what it’s like to eat tarantula, the Kafka book she gives to toddlers, why The Book of Common Prayer is underrated, and more.
Read a full transcript enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video.
Recorded September 2nd, 2022
Other ways to connect
- Follow us on Twitter and Instagram
- Follow Tyler on Twitter
- Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu
- Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here.