The energy system has changed dramatically in the last 40 years, both in the UK and globally.

But how do these changes happen? What makes technology transitions and innovation a reality? Is it policy, politics, or global economic patterns outside our control?

We're joined by Jim Watson, Professor of Energy Policy and Director of the Institute for Sustainable Resources at University College London, to reflect on the changing nature of energy policy and practice over the last four decades.

Alongside our host Sulaiman Ilyas-Jarrett, a former senior government advisor and Policy Fellow at the University of Cambridge, they touch on everything from the 1970s oil crises and the 1984 miner's strike, to the theory of technology innovation systems and the role of China in a new energy future.

Interview Interlude Playlist, Part 9: Carl Zimmer