In this episode, Kyle interviews Alex Belser, Ph.D. and Bill Brennan, Ph.D.: psychologists, psychedelic researchers, authors, and co-creators of the EMBARK model, a framework for psychedelic therapy. 

When Belser and Brennan worked together at Cybin, they canvassed the field of psychedelic research and saw very little reporting (if any) of the manuals researchers were using, so they created the EMBARK model as a "big tent" framework – a way to understand what patients were going through from the perspective of six different clinical domains, where the clinician can go deeper into whichever domain is needed based on their specific skill sets. The EMBARK model has been used in two randomized controlled trials to date, and its corresponding book, EMBARK Psychedelic Therapy for Depression: A New Approach for the Whole Person (co-authored by Belser and Brennan), was released in April. 

They discuss: 

• The six domains and four ethical care cornerstones that make up EMBARK, as well as the many proposed change mechanisms that come into play
• Concerns over facilitators stepping aside and letting the medicine do the work: How much of a factor is someone's presence in the room?
• How much smaller, "little t" traumas can affect people – trauma doesn't always come from a single hallmark event
• The need for facilitators to be trained well (and trauma-informed), as it's nearly impossible to tell when an adverse outcome is coming

and more! For links, head to the show notes page.