Complexity and a Theory of Life | Neil Theise, MD

Feb 13, 2024

In this discussion, Neil Theise, a pathologist and complexity theorist, dives into the fascinating world of complexity theory. He shares his unique journey from Jewish studies and computer science to pathology. Theise explores the intersection of science and spirituality, emphasizing how complex behaviors emerge from simple systems. He highlights the 'edge of chaos' and its role in understanding adaptive behaviors in nature. With insights on the connection between cells and consciousness, he advocates for a holistic approach that merges science with metaphysical perspectives.

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ANECDOTE

Pathology’s Unique Appeal

Neil Theise loves pathology for its puzzles and the ability to work scientifically with human tissues directly.
He finds midnight calls for liver transplants challenging but deeply involving and socially rewarding.

ANECDOTE

From Jewish Studies to Pathology

Neil Theise shifted from Jewish studies and computer science to pathology after a personal moment about connection.
He found pathology to satisfy his love for solving biological puzzles and being the expert with answers.

INSIGHT

Pathologists’ Solitary Responsibility

Pathologists hold crucial, often solitary responsibility as the first to know a patient's diagnosis from tissue samples.
Their work deeply influences treatment yet rarely includes direct patient interaction, balancing privilege and emotional burden.

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At the mention of human consciousness and the supposed interconnectivity of all things, your mind probably conjures up the countless books on meditation, alternative medicine, and mysticism that permeate self-help sections of bookstores. But complexity theory attempts to apply rigorous scientific analyses to universal questions of consciousness and being. At its heart, complexity theory seeks to understand how complex behaviors and patterns emerge from simple rules and interactions within a system. This theory, which draws from mathematics, computer science, and physics, challenges our traditional reductionist approaches to biology and reveals how life self-organizes from the substance of our universe, from interactions within the quantum foam to the formation of atoms and molecules, cells, human beings, social structures, ecosystems, and beyond.

Here to tell us more about it is Neil Theise, MD, a pathologist and complexity theorist who in 2023 wrote the book Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness and Being. Dr. Theise is Co-Director of Gastrointestinal and Liver Pathology at NYU's Grossman School of Medicine and is a pioneer of adult stem cell plasticity and the anatomy of the human interstitium.

In the first half of our conversation, Dr. Theise discusses his journey to pathology by way of Jewish studies and computer science during college, what it's like to decipher diseases through his biopsy samples, and the significance of being the doctor that other doctors turn to for guidance on treatments. In the second half of our conversation, Dr. Theise gives us a primer of complexity theory and how it seeks to explain the beauty and mysteries of life.

In this episode, we discuss:

4:01 - What a pathologist does and why Dr. Theise finds the work fulfilling

8:15 - Dr. Theise’s path to becoming a pathologist

15:22 - The unique role of pathologists in learning life-changing information about patients

20:42 - What it’s like to be the doctor that other doctors turn to for diagnostic puzzles

24:43 - A primer to complexity theory

37:03 - The difference between chaos theory and complexity theory

40:35 - How Dr. Theise came to study complexity theory and how it relates to our understanding of the body

54:38 - Why Dr. Theise believes that people should bring metaphysics back into their lives

Dr. Neil Theise can be found on Instagram at @neiltheise.

Dr. Neil Theise is the author of Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness, and Being (2023).

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