At the mention of human consciousness and the supposed interconnectivity of all things, your mind probably conjures up the countless books on meditation, alternative medicine, and mysticism that permeate self-help sections of bookstores. But complexity theory attempts to apply rigorous scientific analyses to universal questions of consciousness and being. At its heart, complexity theory seeks to understand how complex behaviors and patterns emerge from simple rules and interactions within a system. This theory, which draws from mathematics, computer science, and physics, challenges our traditional reductionist approaches to biology and reveals how life self-organizes from the substance of our universe, from interactions within the quantum foam to the formation of atoms and molecules, cells, human beings, social structures, ecosystems, and beyond.

Here to tell us more about it is Neil Theise, MD, a pathologist and complexity theorist who in 2023 wrote the book Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness and Being. Dr. Theise is Co-Director of Gastrointestinal and Liver Pathology at NYU's Grossman School of Medicine and is a pioneer of adult stem cell plasticity and the anatomy of the human interstitium. 

In the first half of our conversation, Dr. Theise discusses his journey to pathology by way of Jewish studies and computer science during college, what it's like to decipher diseases through his biopsy samples, and the significance of being the doctor that other doctors turn to for guidance on treatments. In the second half of our conversation, Dr. Theise gives us a primer of complexity theory and how it seeks to explain the beauty and mysteries of life.

In this episode, we discuss: 

4:01 - What a pathologist does and why Dr. Theise finds the work fulfilling 

8:15 - Dr. Theise’s path to becoming a pathologist 

15:22 - The unique role of pathologists in learning life-changing information about patients

20:42 - What it’s like to be the doctor that other doctors turn to for diagnostic puzzles 

24:43 - A primer to complexity theory 

37:03 - The difference between chaos theory and complexity theory 

40:35 - How Dr. Theise came to study complexity theory and how it relates to our understanding of the body

54:38 - Why Dr. Theise believes that people should bring metaphysics back into their lives 

Dr. Neil Theise can be found on Instagram at @neiltheise.

Dr. Neil Theise is the author of Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness, and Being (2023).

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