In this thought-provoking interview series from the RSA, Matthew Taylor, puts a range of leading thinkers on the spot - from writers to business leaders, politicians to journalists - by asking for big ideas to help build effective bridges to our new future.

Installed without you even noticing, once on your phone it can record your calls, copy your messages, steal your photos - even secretly film you. But what exactly is 'Pegasus', and is it really a threat to our democracy and our human rights? Matthew is joined by investigative journalists Laurent Richard and Sandrine Rigaud to find out more.

Laurent Richard is the founder and director of Forbidden Stories, a consortium of journalists that was awarded the 2019 European Press Prize and the 2021 George Polk award for its work continuing the investigations of threatened reporters.

Sandrine Rigaud is an award-winning investigative journalist, and the editor-in-chief of Forbidden Stories.

A Tempo & Talker production for the RSA.

In this time of global change, strong communities and initiatives that bring people together are more invaluable than ever before. The RSA Fellowship is a global network of problem solvers. We invite you to join our community today to stay connected, inspired and motivated in the months ahead.

You can learn more about the Fellowship or start an application by clicking here.

#3431: How To "Escape The Matrix" [Part 1 of 3]