Stephen Jenkinson, a poetic cultural activist, discusses the limitations of personal growth, advocating for embracing impending catastrophes. He challenges the obsession with constant improvement and explores the balance between self-care and societal contribution. The conversation delves into the concepts of wholeness versus goodness, the importance of internal exploration, and the role of elder mentorship in navigating life's challenges.
Embrace work without depending on hope to assure outcomes, challenging the notion of hope as a prerequisite for labor.
Reframe personal growth and healing as potential limitations, highlighting memory transformation and the pursuit of goodness versus wholeness.
Descend into the mystery of catastrophe, rupturing habitual patterns to navigate a transformative path towards wholeness and discomfort for genuine growth.
Deep dives
The Nature of Hope and Work
The concept of hope as a prerequisite for undertaking work is challenged, emphasizing the importance of undertaking labor even in times of trouble without the assurance of its outcome. The need to move beyond the fixation on personal growth and healing, reframing them as akin to tumors that grow to self-destruction, highlights the necessity of embracing work without the dependency on hope.
Challenging Growth and Healing Narratives
The discussion delves into the notions of personal growth and healing as potentially limiting pursuits, likening them to a relentless journey of self-betterment and fixation on past wounds. The importance of addressing the habit of remembering in healing processes, transforming memory to lessen harm, is highlighted, along with a critical analysis of the pursuit of goodness and wholeness.
Embracing Catastrophe and Endings
Catastrophe is reframed as a descent into the mystery, indicating the importance of embracing endings and initiatory processes. The journey of trembling solitude in catastrophe, marked by the essential act of blessing or bloodiness to rupture habitual patterns, navigates a path towards wholeness and transformative growth, urging a deep willingness to engage with the uncomfortable and descent into the numinous.
Navigating Solitude and Descent
The importance of descending into the unknown, embracing solitude and profound change, is emphasized as a transformative path towards growth. Reluctance and the desire to escape the descent into the deep self is acknowledged, highlighting the challenge of resisting distractions and the comfort of habitual patterns in modern society, ultimately calling for a deeper engagement with discomfort and liminal experiences for genuine transformation.
Reflections on Hope and Immediate Responses
The discussion delves into the nature of hope and immediate responses to challenges. It emphasizes how being consumed by hope can hinder living in the present moment. The analogy of hope working like a mortgage is used to illustrate how hopeful anticipation can limit present experiences and possibilities, akin to being indebted. The conversation highlights the importance of not letting hope dictate actions, especially in times of trouble, advocating for engaging in activities without the assurance of success.
Elderhood Amid Crisis and Unknowing
The podcast addresses elderhood in the face of crisis and uncertainties brought by current events. It reflects on the isolation experienced over the past year and its impact on self-determination. Anecdotes about indigenous survivors of residential schools undergoing mental distress after receiving acknowledgment and reparations are shared. The narrative underscores the role of elders in navigating the aftermath of crises and facing profound societal changes, providing insight and guidance in a time filled with challenges and dark uncertainties.
Today's conversation is a serious one, yet it is approached with the poetic grace that only Stephen Jenkinson can deliver. Personal growth and healing alone won't shield us from impending catastrophes, but perhaps embracing them might... just maybe.
In this episode, we discuss why personal growth for its own sake can resemble a tumor and examine the issues surrounding healing culture. We discuss the concepts of wholeness versus goodness and listen to Stephen's experiences in Cadiz, Plymouth, and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. We also explore how catastrophe can lead to a period of descent and introspection. Stephen enlightens us on how hope functions like a mortgage, and I have the audacity to ask him what's next.
Stephen Jenkinson, a cultural activist, worker, and author, teaches internationally and serves as the creator and principal instructor of the Orphan Wisdom School. Since co-founding the Nights of Grief and Mystery project alongside singer-songwriter Gregory Hoskins in 2015, Stephen has taken this musical, tent show revival, storytelling, and ceremonial performance on tour throughout North America, the UK, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand. He has authored A Generation's Worth: Spirit Work While the Crisis Reigns (2021), Come of Age: The Case for Elderhood in a Time of Trouble (2018), the award-winning Die Wise: A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul (2015), and other works.
Stephen Jenkinson is also the focus of the feature-length documentary film Griefwalker, which provides a glimpse into his work with the dying, and Lost Nation Road, a shorter documentary chronicling the creation of the Nights of Grief and Mystery tours.
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