Agentic AI in Education & the Art of Becoming with Punya Mishra

Aug 26, 2025

Punya Mishra, Director of Innovative Learning Futures at ASU, dives into the intriguing concept of "agentic AI" in education. He critiques how AI tools often emphasize efficiency over genuine learning, advocating for deep engagement driven by personal motivation. Mishra shares his personal journey of learning Odia to connect with his mother’s writing, emphasizing the need for transparent, local AIs that nurture identity rather than automate learning. The conversation also explores the potential of AI to transform educational experiences into creativity-boosting playgrounds.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

Prompts Aren't Pedagogy

Many AI companies sell prompts and dashboards as pedagogy instead of defining learning goals and experiences.
That marketing confuses tools with teaching and misses deeper educational purposes.

ANECDOTE

Learning To Read His Mother's Language

Punya Mishra used Claude to build a personalized Odia reading tool so he could finally read his mother's writing.
He rejected gamification because his motivation was deeply personal and intrinsic.

ADVICE

Use Dewey's Four Impulses As A Filter

Design AI tools to amplify John Dewey's four natural impulses: inquiry, construction, communication, and expression.
Ask explicitly how AI supports inquiry, construction, communication, or expression before adopting it.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard welcome ASU’s Punya Mishra back to unpack what “agentic AI” could—and shouldn’t—mean in education. After a nostalgic cold open on AOL’s September 30, 2025 dial‑up shutdown and why the show’s intro samples the 56K handshake, they question recent AI “study” and “agent” releases and the industry’s habit of mistaking prompts and dashboards for pedagogy. Mishra contrasts gamified nudges with deep, personal motivation, sharing how he used AI to begin reading Odia so he could finally engage with his mother’s writing—learning driven by belonging, not badges. Grounding the conversation in John Dewey’s four natural impulses (inquiry, construction, communication, and expression) and Seymour Papert’s constructionism, the trio argues for moving from AI playpens to playgrounds where students build with AI (including examples from ASU’s Herberger Young Scholars Academy) rather than being optimized by it. They challenge LMS‑first thinking (“management” over “learning”), highlight the power of subverting assumptions versus breaking rules, and frame courses as crafted experiences that shape identity and community. When AI agents automate coursework, who’s learning? The hosts distinguish classic intelligent tutoring systems from today’s LLMs, warn about surveillance‑and‑efficiency logics (TikTok‑style profiling, datafication of kids), and call for transparent, local, personal AIs—with a literal kill‑switch—that help people become, not become X. Sean closes by showing how an AI‑built Final Cut Pro “course” nails mechanics but misses the art (like J/L cuts)—a reminder that human judgment and aesthetics still carry the soul of learning. Mishra also previews his “Education by Design” class that centers on building educational tools with AI, not just chatbots.

Guest Info:

Punya Mishra, Ph.D.
Punya Mishra is Director of Innovative Learning Futures at the Learning Engineering Institute(LEI) and Professor in the Mary Lou Fulton College for Teaching & Learning Innovation at Arizona State University (with an affiliate appointment in the Design School).

Punya's Blog [punyamishra.com]

-----

Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu

Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: @ModemFutura

Host Bios:

Sean M. Leahy, PhD - ASU Bio
Sean is an an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is a Foresight Catalyst for the Future of Being Human Initiative and Research Scientist for the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory at Arizona State University.

Andrew Maynard, PhD - ASU Bio
Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU School for the Future of Innovation in Society. He is the founder of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative, Director of the ASU Risk Innovation Nexus, and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU College of Global Futures.

-----