The Bulwark Podcast Jonathan Karl: The White House Chaos Is Worse This Time
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Nov 18, 2025 Jonathan Karl, Chief Washington correspondent for ABC News and author of "Retribution," dives into the chaotic dynamics of Trump's administration. He discusses the troubling loyalty of Trump's inner circle and the implications of their actions on law and ethics. Karl also explores decreasing public trust in institutions due to rampant misinformation, and the dangerous intersection of madness and leadership. Insightful anecdotes about Trump's demeanor and his administration's corruption provide a captivating look at the current political landscape.
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Controlled Release And Legalistic Delay
- Trump could release the Epstein files anytime but uses legal loopholes to delay and control narratives.
- Jonathan Karl warns 'legally permissible' language lets the administration cherry-pick or withhold documents under ongoing-investigation claims.
Eroded Trust Makes Evidence Ineffective
- Public trust in official sources has eroded so much that released evidence often won't persuade skeptics.
- Karl says the 'war on truth' has succeeded in making people dismiss even direct documentation.
Private Browbeating After The Win
- Karl recounts calling Trump the Sunday before the election and being privately browbeaten over on-message concerns.
- Trump demanded validation and wanted Karl to 'say my name' after an improbable victory.
