Outgoing chair of the Climate Change Committee Lord Deben - perhaps known better to some listeners as former environment secretary and EG columnist John Gummer - speaks to EG's Piers Wehner in the latest episode of the politics and property podcast. 

In a wide-ranging interview he talks about why he believes the government has failed to deliver on its green promises, why we need a Department for Land Use, what he would do to compel developers to be more green, and why he supports Just Stop Oil. 

Plus what he would do if he were back in government, and what he wishes he had done better as Secretary of State. 

“We are now at risk [from climate change] in a way which we have never been before, and we also know what we have to do," he says. "This is a challenge to humanity which will make or break us. And at the moment, it's breaking us."