This is a special re-airing of an episode Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg taped for Venture Stories (Village Global's podcast) in 2019 . Their conversation covers the following: the distinction between invention vs. adoption of technology. What a truly egalitarian society might like, and whether such a society can exist. How individuals’ personal theories of history have influenced outcomes in the past, from the USSR’s espionage of the Manhattan project to Christianity & the Roman elites. The U.S. government as an institution under Great Founder Theory, and its foreign policy in the 20th and 21st centuries. Lee Kuan Yew and Singapore, and Paul Kagame and Rwanda. Patronage as a social technology used by the Chinese Communist Party. To what extent China’s social stability is dependent upon the promise of growth. Bureaucratic legibility as a key mechanism by which technology is a centralizing force.

---

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

---

REFERENCED ARTICLES:

“Functional Institutions are the Exception” https://samoburja.com/functional-institutions-are-the-exception/

“How Roman Emperors Handled the Succession Problem” https://samoburja.com/how-roman-emperors-handled-the-succession-problem/

“Intellectual Dark Matter” https://www.samoburja.com/intellectual-dark-matter/

---

SPONSOR: HARMONIC

🧲 Learn why Craft, Bedrock, NEA and 100s more trust Harmonic’s data to source deals. Harmonic is the most complete startup database, finding new companies as soon as they incorporate and tracking them through IPO. Head to https://bit.ly/harmonicturpentine and make sure to mention Turpentine VC during your demo.

---

Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns

Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more,

Spotify

Apple

---

LINKS:

Samo’s Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/

---

FOLLOW US ON X:

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@samoburja (Samo)

@whatifalthist (Rudyard)

@turpentinemedia (Turpentine)

---

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:11) Exploring Civilizations: Flourish, Decay, and the Immortal Society

(02:44) The Role of Society and Institutions in Shaping Civilization

(04:07) Understanding Human Nature and the Impact of Institutions

(05:06) The Dynamics of Flourishing vs. Decaying Institutions

(08:40) Great Founder Theory vs. Technological Determinism

(09:54) Government Innovation and Cultural Shifts

(14:50) Rethinking Democracy and Governance

(19:26) Designing Cities for Outliers: A Controversial Idea

(23:07) Egalitarianism, Status, and Happiness in Societies

(23:11) Sponsor: Turpentine

(31:43) Understanding Mimetic Desire and Social Dynamics

(34:19) The Role of Egalitarianism and Social Hierarchies

(36:22) Prioritizing Outliers for Societal Wealth and Innovation

(39:35) Theories of History and Political Dynamics

(51:43) Recommendation for U. S. Foreign Policy

(56:20) Globalization vs. Innovation: Navigating the Future

(58:20) Centralization vs. Decentralization in the Future Society

(59:10) Succession, Fertility, and the Future of Societies

(1:01:34) Closing Thoughts on Centralization and Innovation

(1:02:29) Wrap