Interesting Times with Ross Douthat Ross and Ezra Klein Discuss Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics
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Aug 21, 2025 
Ezra Klein converses with Ross Douthat, a New York Times columnist and author known for his conservative insights. They dive into the impact of mysticism on politics during the Trump era, touching on themes of destiny and moral accountability. Their discussion spans the complexities of Christianity in modern culture, contrasting it with contemporary ethical dilemmas. They also explore the intersection of psychedelics and spirituality, pondering how altered states can lead to profound insights. Expect a blend of debate, personal stories, and thought-provoking ideas!
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Man Of Destiny Shapes Political Constraints
- Ross argues Trump functions as a 'man of destiny' shaping events beyond ordinary politics.
- That perception changes how allies evaluate constraints and criticism around him.
Comback Creates Immunity To Ordinary Critique
- Ross says allies who live through Trump's comeback feel insulated from ordinary political checks.
- That sense makes them less responsive to routine policy objections or polls.
Destiny Doesn't Equal Moral Approval
- Destiny can mean success or chastisement; being 'chosen' doesn't equal moral approval.
- Historical instruments can be used for providential ends without being righteous themselves.
