In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes back Rick Doblin, Ph.D., Founder and President of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), for a deeply personal and visionary conversation on the recent FDA rejection of MDMA-assisted therapy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-306/?ref=278

Rick opens up about the painful setbacks, internal missteps, and his own process of recovery and renewed hope. He explains why this isn’t the end—but a critical turning point for psychedelic medicine.

Rick and Paul unpack the nuances of drug plus therapy, exploring why context, integration, and culture matter as much as pharmacology. They reflect on the future of MAPS, the psychedelic renaissance beyond FDA approval, and how business, politics, and spirituality intersect with healing. The episode also explores Rick’s enduring belief in public benefit models, global collaboration, and the potential of a spiritualized humanity.

Rick Doblin, Ph.D., is the Founder and President of MAPS. He received his doctorate in Public Policy from Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, and has spent nearly four decades advancing the safe and legal use of psychedelics and marijuana through science, education, and advocacy.

Highlights:

The cost of MAPS' quiet period
Why MDMA therapy was rejected by FDA
Pharma vs. therapy: What’s best for patients?
Drug-only treatments vs. integrated therapy
Ibogaine’s role in brain healing and PTSD
MAPS’ path forward: Phase 4 vs. Phase 3
What the Dutch got right about MDMA
Spiritualized humanity and self-transcendence
The global impact of MAPS’ work
Business, love, and psychedelic ethics

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