Episode #108 – Brian Lim on Launching Your Business Into Outer Space (current business trends and growth tips)

It’s John McIntyre here, the autoresponder guy. I’m here with Brian Lim.

Now Brian is a very interesting guy and a bit different from the usual guests

I get on here, you know, I’ve spoken to marketers, entrepreneurs and

business guys, and Brian is very much a business guy and entrepreneur,

but why I put him on the show is that I’ve been reading a book called Bold

by Peter Diamandis. And it’s all about how fast the world is changing and

how much faster it’s going to change over the coming years. And where

this fits in the business is, I think, a lot of people, when it comes to

marketing, everyone’s talking about how you can build better sales, how

you can build a better business. Maybe even sell your business later on

with all the startup stuff. But very few people, you know, before… When

you’re doing that, a lot of people think that’s freedom. That’s, when you get

there, you can be happy, you can retire, you can live on the beach. Or you

can go to Thailand and live on the beach and, you know, work while

drinking coconuts or something. But you get there and then you realize it

doesn’t make you happy. All you’ve really done is created a platform on

which to do something interesting with your life. And, so, I wanted to talk to

Brian, have a bit of a chat about once you get to that point, what some of

the opportunities, what’s going on in the world of business right now, in

term’s of what’s next, what’s gonna really get you pumped up and excited,

and passionate more than just, you know, building an internet business,

something like this. Something that’s gonna change the world. So… It’s a

bit of a cliché, but I like it. I like it. Brian, how are you doing, man?

Brian Lim: Very good, John. How are you?

John McIntyre: I’m doing good man. Now what the… I should have asked this before we

started but I was thinking cause you’re originally from Singapore but you’ve

been in Australia for a while…

Brian Lim: Yes, that’s right.

John McIntyre: Okay, so do you have… Cause I think, you said mate before, do you have

like an Australian accent, do you think?

Brian Lim: Oh I think I have little bit of it. You know, if you wanna come get a schooner

with me I’m happy.

John McIntyre: Haha that’s kinda funny too and a bit ironic. You’re from Singapore but

you’re in Sydney right now. And I’m in Singapore and I’m actually from

Sydney.

Brian Lim: Haha we’ll swap places one day.

John McIntyre: One day, man, let’s do it. So before we get into some of this singularity

stuff, the exponential stuff, can you give the listener a quick bit of a

background on who you are and what you’re up to?

Brian Lim: Okay so I am actually the space guy and what I… You know, when I go to a

club and try to talk to a nice lady and they ask me what I do I’ll just say I

build spaceships.

John McIntyre: What’s the response to that?

Brian Lim: Haha you know, I’ll just say a lot of people think I’m just pulling their leg.

They think I’m at a bar, I’m just trying to drop an interesting conversation.

So you build spaceships. Cool. And then the guy says yeah, I’m a vampire.

John McIntyre: So you actually build spaceships?

Brian Lim: Yes I do, sir! You know um so what I do is that I am right now working with

the government of Australia, universities in Australia, corporate entities in

Australia on the design and manufacturing of spacecraft and building

space business ecosystem to actually take Australia to space.

John McIntyre: Have we ever been to space? I don’t think we have.

Brian Lim: Well actually it’s funny. Australia is actually the third country to have ever

put anything in space. Alright? Right behind after Russia, the U.S., it

became Australia, right after that. And the second busiest spaceport in the

world today is Woomera, which is in South Australia. It is the second

busiest spaceport in the world right behind Cape Canaveral.

John McIntyre: So when you say it’s the busiest spaceport, I mean like um I don’t know

how much space traffic like if you say you got the busiest airport there’s a

ton of traffic, you know, through that. So when you say the busiest

spaceport how much traffic goes through, you know, the second busiest

spaceport?

Brian Lim: Basically, they launch something every week.

John McIntyre: Wow, okay, so… Wow! That’s more than I thought. And this runs to…

Satellites, international space stations, you know, what sort of… Well,

what’s around, launches and traffic, what’s going on?

Brian Lim: You know what, actually no one knows because all… It’s the second

busiest but nobody knows what’s flying, it’s all military confidential.

John McIntyre: Hmm, interesting, okay. Fair. So maybe the military is building us huge

base on the moon right now and no one even knows about it.

Brian Lim: Exactly, they’re defeating our alien master overlords.

John McIntyre: It’s one of those things, well, it’s like the movies when alien attacks the

planet and only the CIA or only the special, you know, spies and agents

know about it. No one else seems to know about it and they never find out

and they get their memory wiped out. Maybe that’s what’s happening right

now.

Brian Lim: Yeah. Potentially, yeah. Very MIB-like of you!

John McIntyre: So you’ve been to Singularity University, you said you did the International

Space University which… Is a Space University. And they have got five

spacetops and three of them are going pretty well. So what are you

thinking, I mean we had a bit of a chat about this, so where do you think

this is going? We talked about like… What I find really interesting about this

is the whole… We are using our brains to think linearly. In terms of one plus

one plus one, you know… Take one thirty times and it gets to thirty.

Whereas if you do like one meter exponentially by doubling it every time,

you get some pretty big numbers. And it’s very interesting, right, because

no one… It’s very much that people don’t understand it. So when we think

about computers getting faster every year our brains don’t grasp the speed

at which the things are starting to move. Where’s it all going?

Brian Lim: I think you gotta look at… One very simple way to look at is innovation.

Okay? Everyone knows that innovation is getting faster and faster and

faster. So the question to ask is when is innovation going to be so fast that

you cannot keep up anymore? So right now, if you think about it, the

internet, when it was invented in 1990s, took 7 years to be adopted by 25%

of American population. Now, electricity, on the other hand, took

somewhere around 40 years, when it was invented. So, if you think about

that line we’re gonna approach a point where adoption of new technologies

is going to be so rapid that nobody can actually keep up anymore. To give

you an idea, Uber, as everyone knows, is a car company, a ride-sharing

company, right? Now it came into Australia two years ago and now, two

years on, it is taking 20% of the taxi market. Outright. And no one would

have expected an organization like Uber to appear. I mean when it first

started it wasn’t worth much. Now it’s worth what, 10 billion dollars. So

companies like that are gonna come and go. Stat says that an average

lifespan of a billion dollar company used to be 60 years. It’s now gonna be

15. So a lot of work we gonna create is going to become irrelevant very

quickly. And we have to be accomodated and get used to the fact on how

do we constantly innovate to stay in touch or how can we build a business

or an organization that can last for centuries past this point.

John McIntyre: That sounds like it’s the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in the sense

that if… Cause I’ve heard this before too, like, the billion dollar company

lasting 60 years, now it’s lasting 15. Someone said recently… There is an

article on Forbes, one of these sites said, something like 75% of what’s on

the Inc. 500 or the Inc. 50, some of the top companies in the world… None

of those companies exist yet. I don’t know what the actual stat was but it

was like 75% of the companies in 2020, that will be like 75% of the biggest

companies in the world in 2020 don’t even exist. Yet. Which is kinda crazy,

it’s like wow, what will those companies be?

Brian Lim: You know what, I have spoken to Peter Diamandis, Ray Kurzweil and a

whole bunch of other people… We don’t know. We actually have no idea

what it’s going to look like. So when you think about it for a moment it’s not

that we don’t know. What it translates into is it’s anybody’s game.

John McIntyre: Yeah. One thing I find in this is, like, you are doing like a self-help work and

that’s going on about… And then you gotta get in touch with your dreams

from when you were a kid. If you wanted to be an astronaut you’ve gotta

get in touch with that and find out if you can actually be an astronaut. If you

can’t be, go and work for a space company for example. And where this is

interesting is that a lot of people who hear something like this and it’s…

Even if they are very successful with what they do already with life they

gonna have the attitude of I can’t really build a space thing. It just feels like

it’s so far out of reach. Or you can have these multi billion dollar

companies, you know, like Instagram and do it in 18 months or something.

And I think that people are gradually waking up to the point when this is the

exponential thing. When you start to grasp the potential of how an

exponential curve works, anyone, if they’re willing to do the work and get

involved, can go from being just a random person with maybe a small

business or something like that, some mild success, but nothing in the

grand scheme of things, to going and going, and doing something

absolutely life-changing for billions of people on the planet.

Brian Lim: Exactly. And that’s one of the opportunities we have, it’s that we’re now in

an age when you can build a big business and you could also save the

world at the same time. If you wanna be a billionaire, just sell one dollar

product to a billion people.

John McIntyre: It’s like Whatsapp did, right? One dollar a year. It sold out to Facebook for

19 billion dollars, though. It’s incredible. And when you think about how fast

this world is being created. You know, you got Instagram in 18 months, and

Whatsapp, and Viber, with something like 900 million dollars. And

Instagram had 13 employees.

Brian Lim: Yep. 13 employees and it was sold to Facebook for a billion dollars.

John McIntyre: It’s incredible. And obviously it’s not as easy as just sitting down, building

an app and then, you know, you’re gonna make your billion dollars. But it’s

exciting to give in to that freedom thing. Once you’ve got a business and

you’ve got your freedom and whatever that means to you, whatever level

you need to be at, then it’s a bit like you can do anything you want now

with your life. You have the time, you have the money, for the most part.

Now you can do whatever you want. So what’s gonna get you most excited

when you get up in the morning to go and do stuff? Would you really want

to sit around and play video games all day? Or would you want to go and

tell people at the bar that you build spaceships?

Brian Lim: You already know my answer, I’ll do the second. Any day.

John McIntyre: Cause you have an accelerator, eh?

Brian Lim: Yes.

John McIntyre: So do you work with younger people or less experienced people and set

them up, mentor or coach them, that kind of thing?

Brian Lim: Yes, we do.

John McIntyre: How does that work? What sort of barriers and problems do you run into?

Brian Lim: Well I think the first thing is perception. When I say that this is mentality of

to do space you need to be a rocket scientist and I’m not a rocket scientist

and therefore I can’t do it. And that’s the first thing I’m faced with as a

challenge. And you know what’s the funny thing… I’ll give you a real

example. The satellites were launched, it was called the GRACE Mission.

It was launched to measure the gravity of the Earth’s planet field

accurately. And on board it had a few sensors. It had a gyroscope, threeaxis

accelerometer and a GPS and a few other instruments. The first

mission was about 200 million, the second was 520 million. And if I were to

compare that with something that you already have, which would be your

smartphone, it’s no more than a $1,000, you have an accelerometer, you

have a GPS, you have a touch screen, a decent speaker, you know. The

cost of this is amazing. So the truth is that we can now actually build

satellites really cheap. In fact, anyone in your audience can google it, it’s

called PhoneSat. NASA built it. They basically figured out how to put an

Android smartphone in a satellite and make it work. So if you know

anything about programming, you’re using JavaScript to actually write the

Android app. Which translates to that if you can make an Android app or do

decent basic programming, you can control a satellite.

John McIntyre: So you can actually launch your own satellite from your house into space.

Brian Lim: Not from your house, just yet I don’t have enough rubber bands to do that,

just yet. But you can actually do so. Just from that perspective alone, of

difficulty, it’s incredible. You can do something. The next challenge I have is

people think it’s really expensive. If I ask you right now how much do you

think it costs me to put something in space, what do you think it will cost?

John McIntyre: Five… Well… I’ve kinda read some of these books, I was gonna say, like,

$5,000.

Brian Lim: Five thousand dollars, actually, you’re right. Let’s not kid ourselves here.

So the $5,000 is a launch cost for what we call a CanSat. It has a size of a

coke can and it’s a really small piece of hardware. And it’s basically there

to go up there and say beep beep beep I exist.

John McIntyre: So you can’t spy on your friends with that?

Brian Lim: No, unfortunately. The cheapest satellite I’ve ever seen so far built that

works, right? It’s $50. It’s called the Fifty-dollar satellite. Okay? You’re not

gonna make a commercial product of it but that’s how cheap it’s getting.

I’ve calculated. If you have about $250,000, you could actually sit down

and design a viable space business. Now, 250 is build, launch and

maintenance of a satellite. You could actually figure this out. You could do

it.

John McIntyre: Cause one thing I wondered about is how this translates to… One thing, we

kinda sit down and play around with some of this stuff and spend a bit of

money just as a hobby kind of thing, but how do you make this? How do

you take that $250,000 and make it a business?

Brian Lim: Okay so this is one of the challenges, is that you don’t know space and

people don’t understand the model. So one of the interesting things that

people do is actually education. If you think about it for a moment, when

you have something up there, what are you providing back to Earth?

John McIntyre: Information.

Brian Lim: Exactly. So the value of information is of course greater than the hardware

itself. So if you provide education let’s say I’m gonna teach kids on how a

spacecraft works, they go to walk with me to my journey on building a

spaceship and it goes up. That itself is a potential business. Especially with

the focus on STEM education. If you want to talk about… If you put a big

enough camera on board then you fall into the model of Planet Labs where

you’re taking photos of the Earth. You know, they’re telling you what’s

going on. Now let’s go on to the next one. We have a special kind of area

which you think you always know as GPS. It gives you position, navigation

and timing. Now what’s really cool about this that people don’t realize is

that GPS is not as accurate as you think it is. So when you use GPS, not

the cell phone towers, but ‘GPS’ GPS it’s plus minus 10 m accuracy. Now

for you to go down the street to find something there it’s no big deal, right?

Now if you’re flying an airplane and you’re gonna hit the runway or you are

trying to maximize the land on a farm for you to plant crops, 10 m is

suddenly a very big deal. So there’s a lot of people who are building

technologies and services around augmenting GPS to make it more

accurate. And I’ve been reading recently on a brand new model for space

that at least was brand new to me, is that people have been using GPS to

measure waves. So imagine it goes over the ocean, GPS hits the ground,

it gets reflected back to space. So the signals are then read by a satellite

that determines the height of a wave. So potentially it could be a disaster

warning prediction mechanism. Well it’s checking the Pacific Ocean on a

regular basis and it could say I detect that a tsunami is happening because

the wave has gone up past a certain height. And I’m tracking it’s movement

on approach to a coast. These are the kind of businesses you can build in

space that are actually real today. I love the conversation of, like, asteroid

mining and space tourism and other things. But those things take time and

they are much further away.

John McIntyre: So it’s all about if you wanna get in space tourism you need to be Richard

Branson with a billion dollar budget to buy and build and fund the project.

But you’re saying you could be anyone and put together a company for

$250,000. It doesn’t even need to be your 250 grand, you can go and fund

that with investors. And you’re in business, you’re in the space business!

Brian Lim: Pretty much!

John McIntyre: This is pretty exciting to think that anyone these days could start a space

company and you’ll be like hey girl, I build rockets. So it’s cool, but in terms

of viability of the business model, is this something that the market is ready

for? Or is it sort of still like a tinkerers, kinda like a hobby field?

Brian Lim: Okay, the best way to look at it is to imagine that the space industry now is

how the Internet was in early 1990s. You know, it was a Wild Wild West.

There was a lot of unknowns. Nobody knew how to do everything. If you

could figure a way to make money – awesome. And if you didn’t, there were

plenty of failures as well. But the opportunity is there. When we say we

don’t know what the next business is going to look like it’s very much a

Wild Wild West situation.

John McIntyre: I like that. Just like the Internet was. That’s a good parallel. But what that

means though, is that maybe not right now, maybe not for five or ten or

twenty years, that this is going to be at some point some kind of a space

bubble, just like there was the 2000 tech bubble. When it sort of reaches

that fever pitch where everyone’s going crazy cause all of a sudden there

are companies that are making money. And investors are going insane

trying to get in on act. The whole thing is gonna implode. And it’s going to

be like Internet, in that sense it’s a really interesting way to think about it.

Cause then what happens in 2025, the whole thing implodes, you get in on

2026 on the ground when it’s all just completely messed up and it’s really

easy to start a company, really cheap. Or you just buy someone’s

company. And then it goes back up again, 2030, 2035, so just give me a lot

of, like, this riding the ups and downs of the next few decades.

Brian Lim: Bubbles will come and go. There’s the housing bubble and everything so

no industry is ever immune to it. The difference, I would say, is that the

assets… Imagine this. The height of the bubble… Let’s say I am going to go

and capture an asteroid and bring it back to Earth. And this asteroid has a

trillion dollars worth of ore. Okay? Somewhere along the way the bubble

bursts. And then my company goes bankrupt. But you know what, I still

have a mission. Bringing back a one trillion dollar asteroid. That’s halfway

progression. Let’s say that I’ve already got the asteroid and I’m on my way

home when it bursts, somebody’s gonna buy me because they want that

asteroid. Because that’s business. So the bubble’s gonna be a very

different kind of bubble. You gonna have very smart people who know how

to buy the right assets to go through the bubble.

John McIntyre: That’s interesting too, I’ve just realized. Like if you wanna buy some land

and get the oil out of it or buy a mountain and mine some gold, you need to

buy of someone else. But when we’re talking of space, this is virgin

territory that no one’s been in, so it’s like the first settlers, that no one owns

it. So if you’re the first person to find the asteroid, you don’t have to buy it.

It’s just your asteroid cause you found it first, right?

Brian Lim: That’s right!

John McIntyre: That’s kind of insane to think about it cause I’ve never, none of us grew up

in that kind of thing. Imagine if you could just walk into the Blue Mountains

and you’re like I like this cliff and this patch of land and these 10 acres

here. I’m just gonna build a house right here cause I like the place. It’s

mine now.

Brian Lim: Pretty much.

John McIntyre: It’s pretty interesting too, I like how simple it is for someone to get into as

well. How long do you reckon before it’s gonna start picking up… It sounds

like it’s right at that point now where it’s starting to kick into the next gear.

Brian Lim: You know what, I’m gonna go against that and say the gear has already

kicked in. So I could tell you it’s been about what, 200… No. There was a

billion dollars investment that has already entered the space industry. Like

Space 2.0, all us small guys, a new companies getting started. Alright? And

we also have… Space Skybox Imaging was sold to Google for half a billion

dollars. And that’s the first exit.

John McIntyre: What was that Space Skybox, what’s that?

Brian Lim: Skybox had a very interesting business, Skybox basically built satellites to

take pictures of the Earth like most people. But what they were trying to

take pictures of was factories. They were in parking lots. They wanted to

know how many trucks was going out of the Foxconn factory making your

iPhone. So they could then go on the stock market and hinge their bets on

buying and selling people stock.

John McIntyre: Okay, interesting, if you see a whole ton of trucks going out of Foxconn,

you’re like Apple’s just made a bunch of sales and the share price of the

company is going to grow in the next few days or few weeks, so it’s getting

a jump on the market. That’s pretty interesting.

Brian Lim: Exactly. So they were bought by Google and they’re doing their thing. So

where we’re going is absolutely incredible. It’s almost impossible to figure

out what’s gonna happen next.

John McIntyre: Are you excited about it?

Brian Lim: Without a doubt. Honestly, what I’d be doing in space if I was not excited

about it? No, I think it’s a very boring place, meh…

John McIntyre: I’m not working in space right now, but if I was, I imagine that when I get up

in the morning and it comes to telling people what I do, that kind of thing…

It would be really hard not to be excited about it. It would be just like I’m

working in space, like what… What’s better than that?

Brian Lim: You know, it’s really exciting to wake up every morning… I’m reading

books, talking to people that I never thought possible. Like I honestly

started my space journey in January 2013. A little over two years ago. And

I had not have expected to be sitting in the position when I’m now having

conversations with NASA, the European Space Agency… In the early days

of delta-V when we were getting it off the ground, we had this really weird

conversation that came across our table. We actually met a diplomatic

mission from Japan to Australia. You know, for diplomacy stuff. And they

actually mentioned they were interested in providing discounted launches

on the Japanese space rockets as part of the diplomatic package to

improve relations with Australia. Now leave it at that, okay, but the very fact

that that was even mentioned… Now I’m a startup trying to get stuff off the

ground. I’m not expecting to be talking with big government. Let alone oh,

we need you to improve our diplomatic relations with another country.

John McIntyre: This is top-level stuff.

Brian Lim: It’s absolutely insane. So now I speak with people that I didn’t even believe

would take my call two years ago.

John McIntyre: We’ve been up in the world, man.

Brian Lim: Exactly.

John McIntyre: What they all say, what Peter Diamandis mentions in Bold and it makes a

lot of sense, that right now we’ve got billionaires and billionaires are getting

created fairly quickly. He mentions that space is gonna be where the first

trillionaires are made.

Brian Lim: Yes. And I actually agree with that. If you think about it, when I said one

trillion dollar for an asteroid, I’m not actually pulling it out of thin air… If you

pull up the data on how big an average asteroid rock is and you find the

right kind of asteroid, some of them have right now market value of over a

trillion dollars in ore.

John McIntyre: Can you sell that on the open? Is there a market for a trillion dollars worth

of ore?

Brian Lim: Well, considering the global economy is 263 trillion dollars when I last

checked, I think the answer is yes.

John McIntyre: Haha, what sort of ore are we talking about? I’m gonna look this up. Is this

platinum or something?

Brian Lim: Yeah, we call them platinum group metals. They are the heavier metals. So

what happens when a planet is newly formed, you know, it’s bombarded by

asteroids. As it cools, heavier metals sink to the core. So the Earth is quite

a cool planet, so lot of them have sunk into planet. So the ones we have

been mining are relatively recent and I would say the last 250,000 –

500,000 years. So when they run out, they run out. But the asteroids still

have them.

John McIntyre: Yeah, okay. Interesting, interesting. This is big stuff, man, this is like next

level. I really think there is that clear path, someone going from… And

someone’s looking at this project and thinking well, I just got a website and

kinda sell a few products online and stuff, okay, I’m gonna do space… It’s

like, well…

Brian Lim: Okay, I’m gonna cut you right there because I’m gonna say something for

your listeners. Because if you say I just build a website, I just fix

computers, I can’t do space… John, you didn’t actually ask me what was

my background before space. And I’ll tell you that my degree was in IT. I

would be fixing your internet connection and reinstalling your print drivers.

You cannot ever tell me that you can’t do space because you just build

websites. I still can’t fix the CSS template on my website by myself. I still

suck at basic website design and construction. I have a freeking degree in

it and now I’m doing spaceships, spacecrafts. You can because I’ve done

it.

John McIntyre: How did you make the transition? How do you go from being an IT guy

who fixes computers to being in space? Did you go Singularity University,

was there a quick transition like that? How did that happen?

Brian Lim: Well, I actually thought about it for a while and I applied to actually study at

the International Space University. It’s an incredible university. I only did a

five weeks summer course. That’s all I could do. Alright? Five weeks. I got

basic knowledge. I got all the slides, I got all the references and all I did

after that was I started reading. My first 12 months after that was just

studying and talking to people. Non-stop. I still don’t know the exact

technicals of certain details but I knew enough back then to begin the

journey. Now I sit here, I have finished five stops. I have created an

accelerator. And I’m looking at technology, some solutions that will get me

out to places. I only finished Singularity University last year, from June to

August, when I did the Graduate Studies Program. Alright? It’s part of my

journey on the way. It was, though, how I begun.

John McIntyre: In this moment I’ve been thinking about, is reading Bold, the book by Peter

Diamandis, this idea that it’s not impossible to get into, the way I was

thinking about it, if I’m so excited about this, what would be the next step?

And obviously, you can read a book about it, but ultimately you gonna be

connecting with other people who are doing it. So what do you do there by

going to the International Space University or going to Singularity

University or going to find it even just online… Yeah, even like this, this is

how I reached out to you, through a mutual friend of ours, I be like I heard

you’re into the space stuff. Can we have a chat sometime? Cause that’s

where it starts. You meet someone who’s, I mean… And now that you’re

listening to this, you gonna have the same experience when you, if you

hear someone, even if you’re one step or two steps removed and you can

kinda put yourself in their shoes and think maybe I could do that, maybe,

like, it doesn’t sound that different to me, I just fix computers, how hard can

it be? And that’s exactly the sort of response… That’s exactly what

happens when you spend time with people who are playing at a big level,

you start to level up. Without even trying, it’s just how the brain works.

Brian Lim: Exactly. You wanna be a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big

pond? Take a pick.

John McIntyre: So it really seems like it’s just a decision. Just making that. You’re not

gonna wake up tomorrow and just start a… Well maybe you could just start

a space business. Most people, they already have a job or have a

business. So someone who could have a job right now and they could still,

conceivably, realistically, within the next couple of years, get into the space

business. If they want it.

Brian Lim: One hundred per cent.

John McIntyre: Maybe they will be the first trillionaire in a few years time.

Brian Lim: Yeah. Totally agree. You know, you’re reading Bold right now, and so, one

of the things I think you eventually reach in the book is that everyone you

admire in your entire life, be it your parents, be it the billionaire, the teacher

across the street… Whoever. The people you admire, you admire them

because of the ability to overcome the circumstances that were placed

before them. So if you look at your life right now, you have things that you

have to be responsible for. Be it family, a house, a wife, a partner, who

knows. Being able to understand and be responsible for them while making

sure you can chase the dreams you want to chase is what gets you places.

And every single one of persons that you probably have ever interviewed,

you’ve ever admired, has done that to some degree. And the better you are

at it, the better you will go places.

John McIntyre: Absolutely. Cool. I think it’s a good note to finish on. So before we wrap this

up, if the listener wants to learn more about you or maybe get in touch with

you or hear about this accelerator, where is the best place for them to go?

Brian Lim: Alright. So for my accelerator it’s www.deltavspacehub.com. Alright? And if

you wanna get in touch with me, my Twitter handle is @BoldBrian.

John McIntyre: Sweet. Cool. Anywhere else or that’s the two things you wanna mention?

Brian Lim: You know what, I think that’s great place to get started. If you need to find

me, I’m sure you will find me at the TED conference this year.

John McIntyre: The TED conference? Okay, the TED, not TEDx, the actual TED

conference?

Brian Lim: Okay, I am going to TEDActive, which is the conference that runs parallel

to the main TED, run by TED this year. So I go there every year now. I just

spend time with the people there. So if you see me there, say hi.

John McIntyre: Say hi, for sure. For sure. Cool. Alright, man. I’ll have links to all that in the

shownotes at themakemethod.com. It’s been really good talking to you.

Thanks for coming on the show.

Brian Lim: My pleasure.