Business can make money and do good with Bessi Graham of Benefit Capital

Whether you are a solopreneur or the CEO of a multinational corporation, you can do good and make money.

As business owners, we have a unique role to play in making the world a better place.

Today, I am chatting with Bessi Graham of Benefit Capital. Bessi is a Strategist, Impact Investor, and Award-Winning Entrepreneur with over 20 years of experience with Business Owners, Executives & Government designing business models that can Do Good AND Make Money without compromising on either.

During this episode, we talk about:

• Businesses being solutions to societal issues (3:03)
• Bringing your whole self to work (6:55)
• Making money AND doing good (9:58)
• Advice for the solopreneur (14:48)
• Your team is an investment (18:38)
• Society is looking to businesses (23:05)
• Coaching program for Executives and Entrepreneurs (26:40)

Visit Bessi's Site - https://benefit.capital/

Are you an Entrepreneur or Executive looking to integrate your values and purpose into your business in ways that allow you to do good and make money? Email info@benefit.capital to join the waitlist for their new program.

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Collab with Kiva. Kiva is a certified Director of Operations and Online Business Manager who helps business owners show up as the owners in their business instead of being owned by their business. She helps document their systems so they can delegate, optimize, and scale their businesses with ease and flow.

>> Every good team has a playbook. Does yours? Ready to build out your business playbook to not only take things off of your plate but help your business scale? Book a call with Kiva => https://www.the516collaborative.com/schedule-call

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Podcast Transcript

Kiva Slade 0:02

Hello and welcome to Collab with Kiva. I'm your host Kiva Slade. From the marbled halls of the US Congress to my racing-themed office chair. I've learned that there is no perfect path to the life of your dreams. My journey over the past 20 years has included being a legislative director for a member of Congress, policy director for a nonprofit, stay-at-home mom, homeschooling mom, jewelry biz owner, and now the owner of a service-based business. Whether your journey has been a straight line, or follow zigs and zags. Join me and my guest as we share insights, hopes, and lessons learned from our female entrepreneurship journeys. May the collaborative sharing of our stories be the tide that lifts your boat? Let's dive in. Welcome to this episode of the collab with Kiva. Today. I am super excited to talk with Bessie Graham Bessie and I have gotten to know each other through a networking referral group that we're in called The Advance. And I've always just been enamored with her and her story. So today I get to share that with each of you. Bessie is a strategist impact investor and award-winning entrepreneur with over 20 years of experience with business owners, executives, and government designing business models that can do good and make money without compromising on either. So today, we are going to learn exactly that how we can do good in our businesses at the same time that we are making money because we know that's what businesses exist for. So welcome to collab with Kiba Vesey. I'm so excited that you are here.

Bessi Graham 1:48

Thanks, Kiva. Me too. It's lovely to see you again and have this chat.

Kiva Slade 1:52

Yes, definitely. So let's get started. I know that we're going to talk about business. But I also have a question, because some of my listeners might be wondering, hmm, I think I detected an accent. So you tell us where are you from?

Bessi Graham 2:11

Yes, just a slightly different accent to you. I'm based in Melbourne in Australia. And so I grew up here and have lived here. My whole life. I've traveled all over the world, but very much Australian, hence the accent.

Kiva Slade 2:26

Thank you so much. And for everyone who knows I have a thing for accents. So I always love speaking with those who have them. Even if I don't have one, my daughter does a pretty good English one. It's, it's rather spot on. And we're kind of always surprised by it. So absolutely excited about that. I don't engage in that, though. So don't worry. So now let's just dig a little bit deeper. Tell us a bit though about your company Benefit Capital, what is it that you do? And how do you help businesses do good and make money?

Bessi Graham 3:03

Yeah, so the real focus for us is that we see an important role for businesses to actually be not just in a system and causing some of the problems that we see in society, but actually being a solution to those things. And in order for that to happen, there are really two different things that have to occur. And our business focuses on both those areas. So one is around actually just creating those broader systems and support structures. So that particularly smaller and medium-sized businesses can really flourish and have the capacity building capability development, that they require the access to investment and all of those things that are needed for them to grow and contribute within local communities and more broadly in the economy. So that's at one end in terms of just what needs to exist for us as business owners to be able to flourish. Then there's the work directly with entrepreneurs, so down at the level of actually building out those businesses. And so for benefit capital, we focus at both ends. And I think that makes us quite unique. Because people who tend to work with government, or big philanthropic funders around designing those systems interventions are often more academic. They're not actually entrepreneurs themselves. They're not practitioners. And so they design solutions that any of us who have run a business would say, oh, that wouldn't work. That's not That's not our actual problem. And so there are often these big systems being designed by those who don't actually know how it operates at the ground, at the ground level down where you're getting your hands dirty. So we as practitioners like to keep our finger on the pulse working with entrepreneurs like us and being really clear on the challenges and problems that people are facing as they I try to build out a business that can have a really positive impact in the world but also do that in a way that makes money and is financially sustainable. And by understanding both of those places, we feel we can actually serve those two groups better. So we designed better structures and supports at a systems level. And we're able to really get in at the level of an individual business and help someone think about how could I run this business better in a way that integrates my own values and the mission I have of what I want to contribute to in the world. But also does that in a way where I'm unapologetic about the fact that it is going to make money. And that will be just as important as the impact it's having.

Kiva Slade 5:50

I love that. So when we talk about businesses and their role, basically in society, because I think for some, there's like this figure that government is the one who's going to come in and pretty much maybe fix or, you know, deal with a lot of the social ills that we kind of see. But for you, though, you see actually businesses having a role in making the world a better place as well. So when is tell me about the hurdle? Do you find hurdles where business owners may not exactly see how they can make the world a better place? Or how do they figure out and I'm assuming this is part of what your business says, it's helping them see where they can actually step in to help with some of the social ills and make the world a better place? So is there a hurdle that a lot of times entrepreneurs or CEOs have to kind of jump over in order to get to that point? Or do you find that many of them automatically have it, maybe more of an optimistic view of things, and they automatically see their businesses filling these holes?

Bessi Graham 6:55

I think that I mean, there are multiple responses to that. Because there's a lot of different layers to that question. If we think about the fact that for most of us, I would say almost all of us, there is a sense that we would prefer to in our work, feel like we were contributing, we were making a positive impact in the world, that our work, reflected who we are, as people, when we're at home with our family with, you know, we don't want to go off to work and be this hard-nosed horrible person who's treading all over people to succeed in the world, and then come home and be a loving mother. That's, that's not how most of us are wired, we actually want to be, you know, bringing our whole self to work, feel that there is that sense of integrity or authenticity in how we operate. So I think that is fundamental and is something that you can tap into with business owners, entrepreneurs, CEOs, as you said, and help them realize that that is possible to bring those things back together. And for me, that's the exciting piece, about this overarching idea of doing good and making money. It's saying, Actually, those two pieces that often have felt like they couldn't coexist, can not only coexist, but they can end up being mutually reinforcing, they can help support each other. So I think that's one fundamental thing is to say, I believe that there is within us as humans that desire to operate like that. I would make a distinction, though, between that, and the sort of ultra wisdom or desire to give back because as we, if we start to think about our business and go, How can I help or contribute, then I think we start to move into one of the two main barriers, that would be my response to your question of like, what are those barriers that CEOs or business owners come up against? And I would say that the two biggest things that we see in terms of a pattern are that there is an aspect we have to overcome around mindset. And that piece really comes down to that we have had it drilled into us throughout our life, that we really do have to make a choice. Are you going down the road of working in government or a charity or, you know, out there, and you've made a decision that I'm going to do good in the world, I'm going to contribute or be a philanthropist? Or have you decided to run a business? And if you're running a business, then the business of business is making money, you know that that type of distinction has been made. And that pattern really sets in us this either conscious or unconscious belief that we're doing one or the other. So we see people as they run their business. Even though that fundamental desire to be a whole person and to reflect their values.

Bessi Graham 9:58

They can fall into that trap have when they're in business mode thinking, Okay, well, I just need to make as much money as I can. And then I'll make a donation to my local charity that I love, and I'll support them. Or once I get to this amount of revenue, then I'm going to start at the foundation. And I'll give away a percentage of our profits. So these types of things are a mindset shift that has to occur, that isn't saying, The Giving away or philanthropy or doing good, shouldn't be on your radar. But it's saying, let's bring it back in to not be something we do one day, or with a small percentage of our profits are our time, let's really examine all of the opportunities that we had to do good. And so that's the first barrier I would focus on. It's a mindset. So the shift back to say, I'm not going to accept that I have to pick one doing good or making money, I'm going to actually do the work to figure out in my business, what does it look like to do both of those things together. So that's barrier one, the mindset, the second piece that I would highlight comes down to really how we think about capital. So too often in businesses, I hear people saying, are the biggest issue I have is access to capital, in order for us to grow, I need X amount of millions of dollars to build a scale. And the focus tends to assume that the answer to almost all our problems is just to give me more money. If I have the money, I could fix the problem. And money isn't the solution to all things. And often if you don't have and you would know this better than anyone Kiva with the work you do. If those foundational elements of your business are not functioning well, if you put more money in when you're already bleeding, you will now hemorrhage, you'll just lose more money quicker. The Money does not solve those underlying issues in your business. And so the second barrier is that limiting the idea of what capital is and thinking that capital is just cash. So the area that we work with entrepreneurs and business owners in that space is to say, how do we flesh out all of those things that you may not currently be thinking of as assets that you have available to you? And think more broadly about capital? So how do you look at the social capital that you have? Are you operating in a setting? So lots of the work we do in a developing context? In countries where there's a lot of aid and development funding coming in? You can look at what's cultural capital here? How do we tap into a community? And what are the relationships that exist here, that are actually a real benefit that we could use to increase the chance of this business succeeding? So thinking more broadly, about what you have access to, and how you could use that in ways that I become some of the issues you're having in the business, rather than just thinking, getting some cash in the door, we'll fix that. They would be the two main barriers that I would highlight.

Kiva Slade 13:13

Oh, my goodness, I love that mindset shift that we and I know that we're like US and Australia. But I feel like it is pretty universal, that if you choose the route of government or nonprofit, you already know that you're not going to make a lot of money. And your family's probably like you spent all this on your education now. He's doing Yeah, what are you doing? You have debt, you can't just go work for a nonprofit, even though it feels really great, wonderful for you. So I mean, I absolutely love that there's that mindset shift that we can do both and that it's not an either-or, which is what we really have been conditioned to believe in so many instances. And then I love that you said just there are different types of capital. Capital is not always simply money, social capital, cultural capital, there are so many other forms of capital that we can absolutely utilize in ways that are helpful to our society around us. And so I greatly appreciate you breaking that down. So let's talk about a small business owner in small being I don't know, let's say under $250,000 in revenue, or maybe even go smaller than that may be less than $100,000. How can they in light of this mindset shift that they can actually make money and do get at the same time? What are some ways so that they can implement that kind of thought process in their business?

Bessi Graham 14:48

So at that sort of level, of revenue, my guess is that people would be best focusing on looking at the customers that they serve. They're working with or looking at some other components around how they're actually in that back end of their business, being able to deliver to customers so that maybe that they have some a small number of part-time or casual employees, or that they're outsourcing some of that work to contractors, but thinking about the people, or the support structures that are in place to help them actually deliver the business. So that would be two areas that I would start to focus on. If, for example, the day say, okay, if I'm looking for, where am I having to spend the most time and money in my business, so where are those percentages, focused, the time factor at that level, it's going to be heavily you your time working directly with or supporting the customers that you serve. And so thinking about a way to bring those back together is to say, if you can create a better experience for that customer, so if you are passionately driven to say, I love this service that I'm offering, and how it changes the lives of, of the customers, I work with, then that passion and excitement being channeled into ensuring that they get the best possible experience working with you. And that, so if for example, your work is around, supporting or doing counseling with parents who have children that have autism, for example, then you could say, if I can get in there and really help take away some of those stresses, give them the tools, and the knowledge that they need to better support their children, and support their own mental health and sustainability in that, then you will create this win-win because they will have this better experience of your service, they will go out and tell others that you are the person that everyone should come to. So there becomes this flow-on effect of referrals as they need help in the future, you will be the first person I think of because they had such a wonderful experience, and they will come back to you. All of those things are increasing the positive impact that you're having in their life on the area or topic that your business is focused on and is passionate about. But it's doing it in a way that isn't saying because that's important, I'll do it for free. It's saying no, this is of value to that customer. And they will pay for that, which in turn drives revenue back into your business. So this combination of a focus on that customer, giving them the best possible experience actually increases that positive impact you're having in the world increases the relationships that that family can experience in terms of the changes that you're helping create in the world. And it also increases revenue in your business. So that's a way for at that small business level with that lower revenue to just be thinking about Ah, okay, actually, my passion is helping families function better and cope with the stresses that occur related to this issue. So in doing that, and framing that as the good, I no longer have to be apologetic that I'm charging for that. Because that is valuable that to that family. And I can do it in a way that actually increases the profitability and the sustainability of my organization on the financial side as well.

Bessi Graham 18:38

If we flip over to the fact that in that smaller revenue level, we tend to, you know, we're not going to have a large team yet or full-time employees. But we might have either virtually we might be having an assistant or we might have some components where we bring in contractors for key pieces of work to just do a discrete piece of work, thinking about the levels of their experience. So are we paying people properly? Are we creating that environment for employees, that allows them to also flourish because again, if we go back to that underlying sense of as a business owner or a CEO wanting to feel aligned, and that we have integrity in the work we're doing, it's not just important that we feel fulfilled in our work, it's important that those we work with feel fulfilled as well? And the different changes we're seeing in society, this is where that shift is occurring that no longer is the power or with the employee. You know, there are options. People can go elsewhere. They don't have to work with you. And it is an expectation that people will be treated well that they will be paid properly and that they will be taken into account. and their experience is taken into account. So the more you don't just then see them as an expense, like, oh, gosh, I've got to spend $15,000 paying this person. But you also think about that in terms of choosing wisely, who you work with, and thinking, wow, there's actually this great local business that I could support that adds to that sense of, I am about my community. So when you're, you're in that small level, it might be that geographically, that becomes a way for people to say, I'm going to work with Kiva because actually, she's a central part of our community. And she's engaging the local graphic designer, and she's in it. So what are those ways you think about? That whole story of what your business is contributing to? And each decision of where you spend time or money? You be very intentional about, Oh, is there a better way I could do this, that gets me the outcome, but also starts to have a richer sense of contribution and leaving the world in a better place than I found it.

Kiva Slade 21:06

Wow, that right there, I'm just gonna like take that and sit for a moment. Oh, I love Bessie. I really, there was so many things in there that I would love to pull out and talk about so much more. I think a key point though, and I know that both of us have read who not how by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy was you said not looking at your team as an expense. And that really hit home for me, because I know in the book they talk about, it being an investment. And when we make that what's another mindset shift, basically, that we have to make as business owners that those that are there to support us in our business are not an expense, they are truly an investment. And what you're saying, though, is not only being purposeful in that investment, but even other ways that we have to spend our money for our business that we look to either utilize local resources, or I know here in the United States, there's a whole community of military spouses, because these spouses have to in many cases, they're women, and there has no control over where their husband is going to be stationed. And it's so hard to find a job that every single time you're going to move, and hey, I may only be here for a year, I might be here for two years, I don't know yet. So it's like there's a whole community of military spouses, and supporting them in the work that they do allows them to contribute to their households, and also be able to work in many cases virtually because of their, you know, no control really over where they're going to be stationed. And so being intentional about who we decide to partner with, also helps extend that social good that we have at our disposal as business owners and CEOs.

Bessi Graham 23:05

And it's being, as you said, intentional about that. So it's going to look different for each business owner, each CEO, because there will be different things they are conscious of or that they care about or that they have experienced. And so if your area is that, that aspect of military spouses, then really integrate that into how you're thinking and you know, your own story as a business. And then think through all of the ways that could play out. So it's just starting to be more conscious that you are making decisions as a business owner, and you are responsible for those. So when we start to see these shifts, and you mentioned before that aspect of the responsibility that business has and what that looks like. And if we look at something like the Edelman Trust Barometer, they found that 68% of people so your customers out there in the world, are expecting now that CEOs will play a role when the government does not address these big societal problems. So right down to that level of if you're having dinner with friends, and your inner community, as someone that is running a business, it is not any more seen as just that responsibility of the church or a charitable organization or government to solve issues. You will be asked Well what's your position? Or how are you supporting? You know, whatever the topic of the day is, whether that becomes an environmental angle, it can be as simple as Have you ever thought about the paper you're using in your photocopier Have you thought about the so these different pieces, you are spending money you are making decisions and how do you demonstrate in the smallest of things so even if your revenue is at that 100,000 level, right down to if you send a gift to a customer after an interaction, is there a bit of a story behind where you bought that card or where you bought that, that gift, think about those things because even the smallest aspects start to build up. And we all know that as you grow, and your business becomes more successful, you don't suddenly become a different person. And you'll suddenly start thinking about those things. Or you'll suddenly start being generous, you will just increase and expand what you're already doing. So begin now with something as simple as where you buy the Thank You card, and then work your way up to some more significant in terms of dollar value. decisions that have been made over time.

Kiva Slade 25:42

Yes, absolutely. The money is not going to make you into a different person, it's just going to magnify what's already. The first. Oh, my goodness, I absolutely love that so much. So tell us then, just briefly, what it is that or how it is rather, I think it is you have a program a 12-month program. Can we talk a little bit more about that?

Bessi Graham 26:09

Yeah, so what we found with these two groups that we tend to work with, so at the bigger end with intrapreneurs, so those working within government departments, or large international agencies or big corporates, there's a, you know, large size project that we do in that space, then when we come down to the consulting work that we are doing with individual entrepreneurs within their business, they still tend to be very big projects that

Bessi Graham 26:40

quite reliant on us physically being with those organizations and getting into the nuts and bolts of what they're doing and, and designing different business models. And what we've found is that there is a whole range of executives, entrepreneurs, people that are running businesses wanting to figure out what does this looks like for me? And how do I do that, that can actually afford the level of consulting services and in different locations. And if COVID has taught us anything, it's that we have to figure out how to be able to provide that support around the shifting of the mindset and the broadening of a sense of what capital is, and walk with people on that journey in a way that is online and at a cheaper price point. And so those pieces are part of what that 12-month program is focused on. So it is about working through, there's sort of five key areas that we go through with the organizations that come into that program. And the first is the mindset piece. So it's looking at how do we really think about what we call blended value. So it is this piece about not compromising on either side of that scale that saying, we want to be having a positive social or environmental impact in the world. But we want to also be having that financial return. And those things are equally important. So that mindset piece begins there. And then also goes into some of the critical aspects that are part of running these businesses well, so things around personal mastery, the mental models that we have how we look at the world, because again, for mindsets to shift, there is all of this unconscious pieces that we've taken on from the world that we need to start be more to be more aware of, and figure out, Oh, I'm reacting in this way because I have this belief that I hadn't actually even really processed. So that piece is the first kind of aspect because, from our experience, everything begins with that mindset shift of really understanding what is possible and how to think differently. Then we go into the critical work that we've been talking about today of figuring out what does doing good actually looks like for your organization. So if we're going to create this integration of our business model that brings back together doing good, and making money, how, how do we do that? As I said, each organization will be different. So helping people with those strategies and tools to think about and pull apart their own business and go, Ah, I'm going to start here, because it can be overwhelming if we think we've got to crack everything immediately. But so digging into what does doing good and making money look like for your business is that sort of the second piece. The third bit which I could talk to you about for hours, but I'll try and you know, be quick is around values. Because really, if we don't be very clear on what our values are in ways that actually are connected to our behavior, so how do I and behave as a result of those values. And we use Patrick Lencioni, his work here around values. And so there are these distinctions between core values, aspirational values permission to play, I won't go into all of it. But the distinction between those and being clear on what those core values are and how they drive your behavior. But very importantly, identifying if we've had this mindset shift, if we've started to understand what doing good and making money looks like in our business, how do we then identify those aspirational values where we say, for us to actually build that business, and to bring that to life in a way that has integrity, we are going to have to change some things. And there are some aspirational values we have that we know need to become core values over time. But we have to have a plan on how to actually create that shift, whether that's in our own personal life without the culture of our team, whatever that looks like. So values is that third, really important piece of the puzzle. And the fourth and fifth, just briefly, more in the practicalities around if we then have identified some of the components that are in the doing good space, how do we actually really take seriously and hold ourselves accountable for what we're contributing to in the world in that space. Because for me, as an impact investor, I'm very focused on the fact that having good intentions isn't good enough, you have to be able to say, if you're making a claim that you are helping with the reductions of plastics in the ocean, through the way you've done your packaging will, how do I know that it's not good enough to make that statement, you need to in the combination of the data you're collecting as an organization, what you're putting out publicly, all of those things need to be in place. So those final two areas are really into the drilling into the accountability and the measurement pieces of how we then actually close out that loop and do this well because again, you don't want to turn into being someone who's just presenting this beautiful picture to the world of your organization. But actually, if you've looked behind the curtain, there's nothing different in the way you're operating. So they're the five kinds of areas. And the idea is that none of this happens quickly. You know, it's not a, let's do a five-day program and you'll be sorted, you will need a bit of the hand holding and tweaking as you go and that sounding board to be supported as you work through that process. So that's sort of the exciting new pace that we're working with that at this point is a matter of being in touch with us to go on on the waiting list for that with some more information. But my sense is that that will be a much more achievable entry point for people to start to bring, bring that back together and have a sense of I don't exactly know what this looks like or what this will mean for my business. But something that stirs in me that this resonates that there is more to this, and I would like to explore and that is the program level that would be appropriate.

Kiva Slade 33:27

Wow. And yes, you know that you and I could talk about values forever, as well as a measurement. I love that. It's a part of it because it's kind of like one thing to like you said, talk about all these other parts, but then actual measurement of their effectiveness and how we are moving forward. So wow, that sounds like an amazing program. And I think there's probably there's the hand-holding, but at times, I would think there's probably even some pushing because just encouraging people to think even broader maybe than what they had anticipated in the beginning. So

Bessi Graham 34:05

all of the things we've talked about together are that broadening out, whether it's the mindset, or the capital, or the values, it's saying, how do you become more open to aware of and understand that nuance and difference between these things? And there is an unraveling that happens, you know, gradually and that has some uncomfortable aspects to it, doesn't it? I mean, all of us know as business owners, this is not a cruise ride of everything being straightforward and simple. But that doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile. And the benefits that come through actually doing that work unlock a whole bunch of things that as you said, you probably can't even imagine at this point.

Kiva Slade 34:47

Yes, exactly. So for everyone who has heard about the program, we are definitely it is weightless right now. So we will include the information in the show notes but you can also email info at benefit capital in order to get on the waitlist and get some additional information in the program sounds amazing and totally transformative in just how we conduct ourselves as entrepreneurs as well as executives. So, all right, Bessie, this has been mind-blowing for me, and I'm sure for our listeners. So if there was something that you've had over 20 years of experience and so many amazing experiences during that time, looking back, what would you tell your younger self? Who was just fresh out of universities thinking? What's next for me? What would you tell them looking back?

Bessi Graham 35:45

I think I would say that. Then, one of the challenges is if you're curious, if you have, like a very open mind and love learning, which I do, and I suspect you are the same Kiva, there can be a temptation to feel like, you need to learn more, or the next thing and my, what I would say to myself at that point is put into practice what you already know like you will learn things as you keep going. But you will never know enough, or have all the answers. And so feeling like you are hesitating until you understand that next piece or you get that next qualification or you hit the next level of revenue is not the way to operate. So for me, the advice would be, you already know a bunch of things, just put those into practice. And the rest will kind of come as you actually learn and grow. So if you think of that journey from novice to mastery, you need to be actually putting it into practice, you need to do the work.

Kiva Slade 36:49

Absolutely. I love that advice. I think I still need that advice. Now forget my younger self. You know, so that was amazing. So again, I want to thank you so much, Bessie, for everything that you've shared, and really just to encourage us in this process. And in this journey that we can do good. And we can make money. And there is a role for businesses to play that is beyond just that may be manufacturing a product providing service, there are so many different ways that we can have an impact on our society, as well as be more of a positive impact for those that we interact with. So I appreciate the work that you're doing and how you are actually getting us all to think in a broader way about how we run our businesses and how we conduct ourselves as entrepreneurs. So thank you everyone for tuning into this episode of Collab with Kiva. We have had the pleasure today of listening to Bessie Graham of benefit capital, and she has helped us think broader about how we can do good and make money. Make sure to check out the show notes for additional information on benefit capital as well as their upcoming 12-month program that's going to help entrepreneurs and executives do just that. So we look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Thanks. Bye. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Collab with Kiva. I hope you are feeling inspired and motivated to keep being your amazing self. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on any future episodes. Also, the reviews on Apple are greatly appreciated. They will help other women knows that their path is unique to them. If you're interested in being or finding a partner for this journey that you can collab with. Join us in the collab a community of female business owners on Facebook. See you next time.