This week on The Verso Podcast we’re going to be thinking about the relationship between feminism and the carceral system. For a growing number of people the prospect of an abolitionist future - in which police and prisons are obsolete, and are not seen as the answer to all social ills - is an obviously desirable one. But to others, the notion of an abolitionist society is not only unworkable, but deeply irresponsible. Leah Cowan and Lola Olufemi sat down with our host, Eleanor Penny, to address our preconceptions about where violence comes from, what we think it looks like, and how we might tell the difference between protection and liberation - covering topics ranging from the history of feminist movements, to transphobia, police violence, the NGO sector, borders, and biological destiny. You can find Leah's new book "Why Would Feminists Trust the Police?: A tangled history of resistance and complicity" here: tinyurl.com/yc6spv52