How should you show up for people in grief? What do you say? What should you do? Why is it that beauty can exist alongside deep suffering? What can be said at funerals when the person who died was complicated? These are just a few of the questions I wanted to ask Steve Leder—a bestselling author and a rabbi who has presided over a thousand funerals with wisdom and kindness.

In this conversation, we discuss:

The mysterious way beauty can be found the closer we inch to death (our own or someone else’s).
The importance of just showing up. And being you.
Honoring someone’s memory at the same time being truthful about how human they were
The peace that comes from acknowledging that life is full of dualities
“If you have to go through hell, don’t come out empty handed” (Steve Leder), but no, the lessons were never, ever worth the pain

CW: suicide, adult language

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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In conversation with Juan Antonio Bayona