alphalist.CTO Podcast - For CTOs and Technical Leaders

#133 - Build the Learning Machine: AI Adoption, Flow Metrics, and the Future of the CTO Role with Eric Bowman

13 snips

Dec 15, 2025

In this discussion, Eric Bowman, CTO with a wealth of experience from King.com, TomTom, and Zalando, examines how AI is transforming programming and leadership. He shares insights on 'living on the edge' with AI tools and the difference between AI and human creativity. Eric also emphasizes the importance of time-to-value and learning in tech organizations, while advocating for voluntary AI adoption among engineers. He predicts a convergence of the CTO and product roles, reshaping the future of technology leadership.

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ANECDOTE

Dangerously Skip Permissions Shirt Story

Eric wore a T-shirt reading 'dangerously skip permissions' referencing CloudCode's permissive CLI flag.
He says trusting agentic tools can embarrass you but hasn't caused major harm on his machine.

INSIGHT

Expertise Shapes AI Outputs

LLMs are highly sensitive to initial conditions and expertise matters to steer them well.
Non-experts get convincing but often wrong outputs, so experts add disproportionate value.

INSIGHT

AI Lowers Variance, Not All Uncertainty

Agentic coding reduces variance by automating repeatable work but cannot remove unpredictable R&D effort.
The biggest value comes from reducing the 40% of high-variance work AI can help with today.

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From “dangerously skip permissions” to the Andon cord: voluntary adoption, flow metrics, and how agents change what CTOs optimize for

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In this episode, Eric Bowman (CTO @ King.com) breaks down how AI is changing programming, creativity, and technical leadership. We talk about what “living on the edge” looks like with modern AI tools, why “AI is just technology” is still the right mental model, and how CTOs can build organizations that stay fast, adaptable, and focused on time-to-value.

We dive into:

Eric’s journey: TomTom → Zalando → CTO at King.com
What “living on the edge” with AI means in real engineering workflows
The future of programming: what shifts when AI becomes a default collaborator
Why AI creativity is different from human creativity (and why that matters)
What an “ideal” tech organization looks like in an AI-first era
Time-to-value and time-to-learning as the CTO’s north star
The Andon cord concept applied to software delivery
How the CTO role evolves as AI reshapes execution, leverage, and expectations
Motivating engineers to embrace AI without turning it into a mandate
Voluntary adoption as a rollout principle (and where it breaks)
Jevons paradox and why “cheaper” AI can still increase total spend
Practical reflections and advice for tech leaders navigating the shift

Chapters:

[00:53] Meet Eric Bowman: CTO of King.com [02:24] Eric's Journey in Tech [03:25] Living on the Edge with AI [05:43] The Future of Programming with AI [09:51] Navigating the Complexities of AI [22:03] AI Creativity vs. Human Creativity [28:41] Building the Ideal Tech Organization [29:04] Focusing on the Tech Field [29:21] The Future of SaaS [29:50] AI as Just Technology [33:03] Building a Learning Machine [33:32] The Onan Cord Concept [35:29] Time to Value and Learning [38:23] The Evolving Role of CTOs [41:04] Motivating Engineers to Embrace AI [46:02] Voluntary Adoption of Tools [51:35] Jevons Paradox and AI [53:55] Reflections and Advice [56:12] Conclusion and Farewell