Jacobin Radio: A Confederated State Solution? w/ Omer Bartov
Dec 8, 2023
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Israeli historian and Genocide Studies scholar Omer Bartov discusses the necessity of relaunching negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians for a just and long-term political solution. They explore the idea of a confederated state as a potential solution. They also discuss the ongoing violence in the West Bank, the strategy pursued by the Israeli government, and the paths towards resolution in Israel and Palestine. The speaker emphasizes the importance of removing Hamas and the current Israeli government from power and highlights the domestic considerations and pressure on the Biden administration to demand negotiations.
Serious negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians are crucial for a just long-term political solution in Israel-Palestine.
A confederated state solution, neither one-state nor two-state, could be a potential middle ground for resolving the conflict.
Deep dives
The Necessity of Serious Negotiations for a Just Solution
The podcast episode discusses the importance of relaunching serious negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians to achieve a just long-term political solution to the 75-year conflict in greater Israel-Palestine. The conversation highlights that activists and the left should prioritize this demand while the world's attention remains on Gaza. A specific proposal for a political solution, a confederated state solution, is also discussed, which aims to find a middle ground between a one-state and two-state solution.
The Shift in Political Paradigm
The episode examines the shifting political paradigm in Israel due to recent events, particularly the destruction of the previous conception that the Palestinian issue could be managed. The previous approach involved maintaining a Hamas-led Gaza Strip for the purpose of hindering negotiations, while controlling a separate Israeli-controlled Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. However, this paradigm was shattered on October 7th. The episode suggests that the Israeli government may seek to capitalize on the current situation to strengthen its position and implement a population policy to gradually remove Palestinians from specific areas, leading to a potential humanitarian crisis.
Two Paths: Military Strategy or Negotiations
The episode explores two potential paths that the Israeli government could take following the current crisis. One path involves an intensification of military operations and a population policy that aims to gradually remove Palestinians from certain areas, potentially leading to a more authoritarian and messianic state. The other path, which the episode advocates for, is a change in the political paradigm through the removal of Hamas as a power broker in Gaza, and a change in the Israeli government to a more reasonable and less extremist leadership. This two-pronged approach would require international involvement, rebuilding efforts, and a long-term commitment to a just and equal sharing of the land.
Pressure and Possibilities for Change
The episode addresses the importance of exerting pressure on the United States government to influence Israeli policy. It emphasizes that the most effective pressure the US can exert is through arms control and the threat of limiting supplies. Additionally, the episode highlights the need for a larger vision than just a ceasefire, advocating for a focus on negotiations and a longer political horizon. It suggests that by providing a realistic and digestible scenario for American politicians, which includes a confederated state solution, progress towards a just resolution can be made. The episode also discusses the potential economic investments and external support for a prosperous Palestinian state.
Alan Minsky, Executive Director of Progressive Democrats of America, spoke with Israeli historian and Genocide Studies scholar Omer Bartov at a public forum this week about the Israel/Gaza crisis. Bartov published two widely read pieces in November: "What I Believe as a Historian of Genocide,"New York Times, November 10, and "A political stalemate led to the bloodshed in the Middle East. Only a political settlement can truly end it," published in the Guardian November 29. Their conversation focuses on the necessity of relaunching serious negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians to achieve a just, long-term, political solution to the 75-year conflict in Israel/Palestine, a demand they insist activists and the left in general should foreground immediately. Professor Bartov puts forward his proposal for a political solution that Alan Minsky describes as a “Confederated State Solution, neither a one-state nor a two-state solution, but something in-between.”
Jacobin Radio with Suzi Weissman features conversations with leading thinkers and activists, with a focus on labor, the economy, and protest movements.
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