New Creation Conversations Episode 065 - Dr. Mark D. Baker on the Beauty, Deep Wells, and Virtues of a Centered-Set Church

Welcome to episode sixty-five of New Creation Conversations. I’m excited to be joined in today’s conversation by Dr. Mark D. Baker. Mark is Professor of Mission and Theology at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary. Mark is an alum of Wheaton University, has a master’s degree from the New College for Advanced Christian Studies (Berkely) and a PhD in Theology and Ethics from Duke. Mark has written extensively in theology and ethics, but the primary focus of our conversation is his most recent book – published by IVP Academic – Centered-Set Church: Discipleship and Community Without Judgmentalism.

A few years ago, I was asked to speak at the regional gathering for the Church of the Nazarene and in that message I shared an often-repeated story about an American rancher and sheepherder who got the chance to spend time with other ranchers and sheepherders in the outback of Australia and New Zealand. He noticed quickly that they didn’t have many fences keeping the herd or the flock in place. When he asked about it, the herders from down-under remarked, “We learned decades ago that if you dig really good wells the sheep and cattle won’t wander from them, and you don’t need as many fences.” In these very divisive times, both inside and outside the church, I have grown to love that simple illustration and return to it often to think about how we might work for unity within the very diverse Body of Christ. 

Mark’s research and writing on “Centered-Set Church” takes the beauty of that story and fills it out thoughtfully and helpfully. As readers of the book (and listeners to our conversation) will discover, the challenge to creating a “centered-set” community is not just what Mark will call “divided set” ways of identifying as a people, but also the ways “fuzzy-set” forms of identification also become problematic. It is a very helpful and timely book, and a very relevant conversation. So, thanks for leaning into this week’s New Creation Conversation.