South Africa beat Ireland 24-13 but in reality it was a demolition by Rassie's men. Did the whole game hang on James Ryan's deserved red card, or could Ireland have done more to adapt to the situation against the world's best team?
We chat to our man in South Africa, Craig Ray about the rash of reds and yellows, if refs get influenced by external noise, if Ireland could ever dream of having a scrum as good as South Africa's and how long Rassie's reign of terror will last.
Andrew Trimble examines the Ryan red fallout, if the scrum dominates the sport too much and how far off the top table Ireland now are, with France away in Paris next up.
Plus there's a Murph scapegoat masterclass, the Tom Court rebuttal, stop start rugby, and the mystery bunker man.
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The Second Captains Podcast