A robin visits Sally’s boat, and she reflects on the importance of quietness and concentration in the creative process. Inspecting a patch of the meadow which she shares with other boat owners, she thinks of the pioneering naturalist Henry David Thoreau, who also escaped urban living in search of the natural life. Meanwhile, podcast producer Andrew wanders through the woods in search of Sally’s boat and together they discuss a big question in literature; what is the appeal of tragedy, why do we find pleasure in sad stories and sad songs? Sally discusses how tragic literature can help prepare us for the worst; the discussion turns to her own recent diagnosis of an auto-immune disease and the effect it has had on her life. Sally shares with us how a lifetime of reading and writing has helped fortify her and given her courage.

Further Reading

The “homework” Sally sets for Andrew is A.J. Nuttall’s book, Why Does Tragedy Give Pleasure? published by Oxford University Press in 2002. It’s an introduction to the major themes of tragedy, from Greek drama to modern literature, discussing how tragedy can relate to our lives today. It deals with the question of how literature might help us deal with loss, bereavement and the transience and frequent cruelty of human life. It can be found here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-Tragedy-Give-Pleasure/dp/0198187661

When Sally says she feels “very Henry David Thoreau”, she’s referring to the 19th century American naturalist, poet and philosopher who retreated from the modern world to live at Walden Pond in 1845. Thoreau built a log hut, living off wild fruits and vegetables, spending his time observing and recording in his journals the sights and sounds of nature, as well as meditating. In 1854, he wrote his most famous work, “Walden”, which secured his reputation as a forerunner of the modern ecologist and environmentalist movement. As Sally points out, though, Thoreau hadn’t exactly isolated himself; Walden Pond was only a few miles from his family home and he frequently entertained visitors. In an oft-quoted passage from “Walden”, Thoreau wrote: “I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. … I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life.”

You can find his book “Walden” here:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/205/205-h/205-h.htm

In this episode, we briefly refer to the events of Sally’s childhood and the way in which books became her refuge, her salvation, and her way of understanding the world. Sally writes about her childhood, and how she created “a life built by books”, in her critically praised memoirs (although Sally prefers the term “anti-memoirs”) Girl With Dove and No Boys Play Here, published by William Collins. You can find out more about the books on Sally’s website:

https://sallybayley.com/

The producer of the podcast is Andrew Smith: https://www.fleetingyearfilms.com

The extra voice in this episode is Emma Fielding and the beautiful piano track used in the episode is by Paul Clarke

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Thanks to everyone who has supported us so far. Special thanks go to Violet Henderson, Kris Dyer, and Lady Ronia.