Systems Thinking in Practice - A Conversation with Prof. Ray Ison
Apr 7, 2024
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Prof. Ray Ison, a seasoned expert in systems education, cybernetics, and systems science, discusses the evolution of systems thinking and cybernetics. He explores the concept of 'Juggler Isophore,' integrating systems and design thinking, and delves into systemic sensibility in practice.
Integration of frameworks for systemic education practices is crucial for navigating complexity effectively.
Evolution of systems thinking emphasizes cybernetics, communication dynamics, and information revolution.
Systematic and systemic approaches offer complementary perspectives for addressing complex issues.
Transitioning to systemic educational practices requires reframing assessment, fostering agency, and empowering local communities in policy implementation.
Deep dives
Importance of Systems Thinking in Education and Leadership
Systems thinking and systemic capabilities are crucial for educators and leaders to navigate complex times effectively. The podcast highlights the significance of integrating frameworks that promote systems thinking in educational practices. The episode features Professor Ray Eisen's extensive experience in systems education, emphasizing the historical journey of systems thinking development at the Open University since 1969. By incorporating disciplines of synthesis like design and systems, the Open University pioneers a curriculum focused on providing a synthesis between analytical and synthetic approaches to tackle complex social and environmental issues.
The Evolution of Understanding Systems and Information Theory
The podcast delves into the evolution of systems thinking, particularly stemming from the Macy conferences and General Systems theory. The conversation with Professor Ray Eisen explores the integration of cybernetics and communication control dynamics. It sheds light on the consequential semantic mistake in substituting 'information' for 'nerve impulse,' shaping the information revolution and foundational beliefs in human communication. This reflection underscores the systemic implications of existing information transmission models and the challenges of decontextualizing information.
Navigating Between Systematic and Systemic Approaches
The discussion evaluates the nuanced difference between systematic and systemic approaches. By framing them as a duality rather than a dualism, the podcast emphasizes the complementarity of both perspectives. Systematic methods often prioritize linear and mechanistic processes, whereas systemic thinking involves relational dynamics, circularity, and emergence. Reflecting on the heritage of systemic ideation in Western thought and Indigenous understandings, the episode underscores the need to balance both systemic and systematic approaches to address complex issues effectively.
Challenges and Innovations in Education: Shifting from Systematic to Systemic Approaches
A notable aspect discussed is the challenge of transitioning from systematic to systemic educational practices. Professor Ray Eisen's experience at Hawkesbury Agricultural College in the 1980s exemplifies the shift towards fostering student responsibility and systemic awareness. The conversation critically examines the limitations of linear models in educational assessment and the necessity of reframing educators as facilitators of learning for systemic understanding. By creating contextual shifts, such as moving up and down levels of abstraction and enabling responsible agency, the episode advocates for systemic-oriented education and governance approaches.
Empowering Communities through System Thinking in Public Policy
The episode stresses the implications of a lack of systemic thinking in public policy, particularly emphasizing the need for localized control and emergence. Highlighting the failure of uniform public policy approaches, the podcast advocates for empowering local communities to address specific challenges effectively. Integrating the 'why, what, how' framework in policy discussions, the episode highlights the necessity of balancing centralized control for overarching goals with local agency for contextual, systemic responses. This shift towards systemic governance aims to foster adaptability and community resilience in policy implementation.
The Concept of the Juggler Isofar and Curriculum Development
The podcast discusses the concept of the Juggler Isofar, developed during curriculum development at The Open University. This concept focuses on enhancing students' reflexivity and situating themselves as central to their learning and practice of systems thinking. The aim was to equip students with the ability to change circumstances post-learning effectively.
Embracing Pluralism and Deepening Systemic Sensibility
Another key point highlighted in the podcast is the importance of embracing pluralism and deepening systemic sensibility. This involves understanding the systemic relational dynamics in various contexts and moving beyond linear cause and effect thinking. By fostering a systemic sensibility, individuals can recognize the interconnectedness of relationships, challenge boundary judgments, and engage in meaningful dialogues to build systems thinking and practice capabilities for effective transformative performances.
With so much talk about 'systems thinking' in education, sometimes it can become framework overload! Which one should I pick? What's the difference between them anyway?! This week, it is a huge privilege to chat to someone who has been doing this longer than most! Professor Ray Ison has been teaching systems practice for the Open University for the last 4 decades. He shares his wisdom to cut through the jargon!
Ray is a cybernetician, systems scientist, and Professor of Systems at the Open University in the UK. He is currently President of the International Federation for Systems Research (IFSR). He was also Professor Systems for Sustainability at Monash University, and fellow at the Centre for Policy Development, and President of the International Society for the Systems Sciences in the year 2014-15. He is known for his work on systems praxeology within rural development,[1]sustainable management,[2] systemic governance and the design and enactment of learning systems.
An incredibly useful and practical overview of many ofthe topics discussed in this episode can be found in Ray's book, Systems Practice: How to Act. In situations of uncertainty and complexity in a climate-change world. (2017): https://oro.open.ac.uk/51143/
