José Valim, a key figure in the Elixir community, discusses the recent progress and plans for gradually typing Elixir. They also explore the benefits of having a type system in Elixir and the advantages of using Dialyzer. Additionally, they delve into collaboration with Giuseppe to implement an electric construct and analyze the impact of programming languages on AI-generated code. The episode concludes with a discussion on improving AI in Elixir programming and expressing gratitude for José's work.
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Quick takeaways
Elixir's gradual typing implementation allows developers to adopt it gradually without imposing significant changes on existing code.
The initial work on Elixir's type system focuses on patterns and guards, providing developers with the ability to catch errors in struct pattern matching.
Incorporating a type system in Elixir helps establish contracts, improve bug-catching, enhance developer tooling, and identify violations in contracts.
The long-term involvement and future of Elixir involve making the language replaceable, ongoing research, collaboration with experts, and investment in community growth and marketing strategies.
Deep dives
Background and Introduction
This podcast episode features the host and Elixir creator Jose Valim discussing the journey and development of Elixir. He shares how his involvement with Elixir started and the initial challenges faced. The episode also explores the introduction of the gradually typed language and the future of Elixir. Jose explains the concept of gradually typed languages, the benefits they offer, and the milestones of the type system implementation.
The Importance of Types in Elixir
Jose addresses the significance of incorporating a type system into Elixir. He emphasizes that types in Elixir help establish contracts and guarantee that different parts of the codebase remain in accordance as they evolve. The discussion also highlights the potential impact on bug-catching, improved developer tooling, and identifying violations in contracts. Additionally, Jose clarifies that Elixir's type system will be gradually implemented, allowing developers to gradually adopt it without imposing significant changes on existing code.
The Implementation and Roadmap
The podcast delves into the implementation and roadmap of the type system in Elixir. Jose explains that the initial work focuses on patterns and guards, allowing developers to start using the type system without changing the language. He discusses the release of version 1.17, which includes the ability to catch errors in struct pattern matching. Jose also emphasizes the importance of good error messages and fast type checking. The podcast concludes by highlighting the ongoing research, collaboration with companies and the plan for further implementation stages.
Jose's Future Involvement and the Journey Ahead
The episode wraps up by addressing Jose's long-term involvement and the future of Elixir. He shares his aspiration to make himself replaceable and to continue projects, such as the type system and machine learning, without his direct input. Jose acknowledges the deliberate pace of development and the potential for unexpected discoveries and improvements along the way. He mentions the ongoing collaboration with experts and researchers in type systems to provide the best possible implementation for Elixir.
The importance of community and marketing for the relevance of a programming language
The podcast episode emphasizes that the relevance of a programming language is more dependent on the strength and engagement of its community, as well as effective marketing, rather than solely on technological factors. While technological advancements and innovation are important in attracting initial interest, the sustained relevance of a programming language lies in building and maintaining an active and supportive community. The speaker highlights the value of investing in community growth and interaction, as well as effective marketing strategies to keep users excited and engaged with the language.
The challenges and considerations in utilizing AI for programming assistance
The episode explores the potential of AI, particularly language models like GPT, in improving programming assistance. However, it highlights the current limitations of AI in effectively supporting Elixir programming. Challenges such as the need for a larger corpus size of Elixir-specific content, better indexing of resources like forums, and improved tooling integration are discussed. The speaker shares the trepidation of relying heavily on closed-source AI models and emphasizes the value of open-source AI tools to ensure the accessibility and longevity of programming languages.
The future of programming languages and the role of innovation and community
In contemplating the future of programming languages, the podcast delves into the role of innovation and the possibilities offered by AI. The speaker suggests that future programming languages will need to find novel ways to address problems and offer unique advantages to gain adoption. While AI may play a role in supporting developers, it's highlighted that human innovation and problem-solving will continue to drive advancements in programming languages. The importance of fostering communities and encouraging collaboration among developers is emphasized as crucial to shaping the future of programming languages.
Our old friend José Valim & his team have been hard at work adding gradual typing to Elixir. They’re only 1-3% of the way there, but a lot of progress has been made. So, we invited him back on the show for a deep-dive on why, how & when Elixir will be gradually typed.
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