664: An Atheist Says America Needs Jesus with Jonathan Rauch
Apr 9, 2025
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Jonathan Rauch, a Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of 'Cross Purposes', shares his unexpected reflections on Christianity's crucial role in American democracy despite his atheist beliefs. He argues that the failure of evangelicals to truly follow Jesus endangers the nation. The discussion also touches on the implications of trade policies, the current political landscape mirroring the Jacksonian era, and how America can navigate hope amid societal challenges. It's a refreshing take that blends insightful critique with a call for moral standards.
The podcast discusses how misunderstandings about trade deficits can lead to harmful economic policies like tariffs, affecting global relations.
Jonathan Rauch argues that the decline of Christian values poses a risk to American democracy, suggesting that moral guidance is essential for civic health.
The increasing polarization of Christianity with partisan politics undermines individual faith and the unifying role of the church in society.
Deep dives
Understanding Trade Deficits
The discussion revolves around the concept of trade deficits, particularly in the context of the U.S. economy and its implications on international relations. It is explained that the U.S. trade deficit does not inherently signify a loss; rather, it reflects America’s strength as a leading economy where a greater number of goods and services are imported than exported. A significant point made is the potential economic harm caused by the imposition of tariffs, which can ultimately spiral into wider economic damage and instability. The narrator highlights the disproportionate impact of tariffs on countries like Lesotho, a minor player in the global market, questioning the logic behind such aggressive trade policies that can lead to unintended consequences.
Crisis of Neglect in Christian Values
A focus is placed on the importance of Christian values in upholding democracy, with an emphasis on how a departure from these values can harm societal structures. The argument is made that as Christianity’s presence wanes in the public sphere, critical virtues like honesty, accountability, and civility diminish, subsequently corrupting democratic processes. This decline in Christian influence is viewed as contributing to a weakening of the moral fabric that holds together civil society, leaving a void that can be exploited by various ideological extremes. The conversation explores how a lack of moral guidance can lead to an erosion of institutional trust and civic health, with an urgent call to revive these vital Christian tenets.
Political Polarization and the Church
The podcast examines how the church has become increasingly entangled with partisan politics, making it difficult for congregants and leaders to navigate their faith amid a politically charged environment. It suggests that the politicization of Christianity has been driven by a vocal minority, resulting in a landscape where core Christian principles are overshadowed by the desire to align with political ideologies. The deterioration of thoughtful discourse within church communities regarding political issues is seen as a path toward alienation for many, especially younger generations. This polarization not only harms individual faith experiences but risks fundamentally undermining the church's role as a source of guidance and unity in society.
Media Influence on Christian Perception
The impact of media on the public perception of Christianity and its teachings is scrutinized, with a spotlight on how conservative media channels can shape narratives that resonate with fear and anger. The podcast points out that this media landscape exacerbates divisions within society, leading to a culture of blame where people misattribute the causes of societal issues solely to external forces. Moreover, it delves into the idea that the church may not only reflect societal values but also adopt and amplify harmful narratives rather than counteracting them. This critical view encourages an introspective look at how the church can reclaim a transformative message that aligns more closely with the teachings of Jesus.
Hope Amidst Crisis
Despite the ongoing challenges faced by Christianity in America, the podcast emphasizes the possibility of revitalization and positive change stemming from current struggles. It argues for a proactive approach in fostering true Christian virtues that align with democratic principles, suggesting that the potential for renewal is greater when faced with adversity. The hosts suggest looking towards historical parallels, such as past political movements that galvanized reform and encouraged grassroots involvement, as models for what might emerge in today’s climate. Ultimately, the message is one of resilience, advocating for a faith that engages meaningfully with societal challenges rather than retreating into isolation.
Cultural Trade Deficits
The concept of a 'cultural trade deficit' is introduced, positing that as the church imports more secular values than it exports in terms of Christian principles, it risks compromising its identity and purpose. This metaphor illustrates how churches have, in many cases, become reactive entities shaped by external cultural pressures rather than proactive communities embodying the teachings of Christ. The podcast contends that this trade deficit can lead to a dilution of Christian focus and mission, ultimately driving people away from the church as its relevance diminishes. Recognizing and addressing this imbalance is portrayed as essential for revitalizing both the church and its influence in the public sphere.
Donald Trump launched a global trade war because he thinks America’s trade deficit makes us “losers,” but does he even understand what a trade deficit is? Phil introduces a new segment full of statistics that make Kaitlyn and Skye groan. And they discuss David Brooks’ new article in The Atlantic, which compares this moment in U.S. history to the era of Andrew Jackson, and offers hope for what may come after MAGA. Skye interviews Jonathan Rauch about his new book, “Cross Purposes.” Rauch, an atheist, says his antagonism toward Christianity changed when he came to see how vital it is to American democracy and why evangelicals’ failure to follow Jesus is putting the whole country at risk.
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