The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg

We Aren’t All Soviets Now ... Or Are We? | Jonah Goldberg vs. Niall Ferguson

Jul 11, 2024

Jonah Goldberg and Niall Ferguson debate over whether America is the new Soviet Union. They discuss declining life expectancy, deaths of despair, illiberalism, and potential Cold War II. The conversation covers excess freedom, fentanyl vs. vodka, and the impact of socialism. Listen in for a thought-provoking showdown between two intellectual heavyweights.

01:18:27

Episode guests

Niall Ferguson

Jonah Goldberg

AI Summary

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Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

America is facing a crisis similar to late Soviet Russia with declining life expectancy and public morale.

The US differs from the Soviet Union in governance and societal problems, emphasizing personal freedom and liberty.

Concerns arise about illiberal elite capture in American institutions, but pushback against divisive ideologies and potential for improvement exist.

Deep dives

Similarities Between US and Soviet Union Declines

Neil Ferguson argues that the United States bears similarities to the decaying Soviet Union of the 70s and 80s due to declining life expectancy, an increase in mortality rates, and an alienating ideology pushed by elites. He highlights the parallel deterioration in public health and public morale, leading to a crisis similar to that of late Soviet Russia. Ferguson emphasizes the collapse of confidence in American institutions and the disillusionment among ordinary Americans, drawing a comparison to the demoralization experienced by the Soviet population.

Intro

5min

America vs. Soviet Union: A Comparative Analysis

26min

Challenges and Contradictions in American Elites

13min

Comparing Societal Challenges and Governance Models

18min

Analyzing America's State Compared to the Soviet Union

4min

Analyzing Nuances in the Comparison of the United States and the Soviet Union

5min

Comparing America to the Soviet Union and the Importance of Intention

3min

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome to the octagon! The summer of 2024 has been one of epic feuds: Kendrick Lamar vs. Drake, Joe Biden vs. George Clooney, and, most notably, Jonah vs. Hoover Institute fellow and Free Press columnist Niall Ferguson.

Jonah and Niall duke it out over the latter’s controversial claim: that America is the new Soviet Union. Jonah says nyet. Questions fly and accusations abound. Why is U.S. life expectancy declining? Is Jonah in denial? Is Niall just a provocateur? This match-up covers it all: the distinction between excess freedom and excess repression, why fentanyl is different than vodka, what causes deaths of despair, how illiberalism shapes both institutions and social outcomes, and what Cold War II could look like. As for the title-winner? We’ll let you be the judge, comrade.

Show Notes:

—Niall Ferguson: “We’re All Soviets Now”

—Jonah Goldberg: “No, We Are Not Living in ‘Late Soviet America”

—The Twitter Spat

—“The Flight 93 Election”

—“Why Socialism Failed in the United States”

—Joseph Schumpeter: “Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy”

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