We need to talk about a Far Right EU. Nativists and ultraconservatives are being actively courted by the European mainstream including at the level of the EU. There's the advent of prime minister Giorgia Meloni, with her party's roots in Italian fascism, and then there's the popularity in France of Marine Le Pen, previously seen as too extreme. But would a Le Pen presidency really mark a fundamental change for the EU? Or even an existential threat, as commentators have long warned? The disarming answer from the author and think tanker Hans Kundnani is, probably not. The EU has already veered onto a course that's compatible with the likes of Le Pen and Meloni — away from social welfare as a defining feature and more toward an agenda that draws on ethnic and cultural identity. It's one of the ideas that Hans unpacks in his new book, Eurowhiteness. In this second of two episodes that take their cue from that book, Hans is in conversation with Mehreen Khan. Mehreen was an EU correspondent for the Financial Times in Brussels, before joining The Times of London as economics editor. She observes how pro-Europeans can also make pretty good nativists — and how many are prepared to tolerate the far right, just as long as they don't challenge European monetary union or foreign policy. So with far-right ideas in the ascendant, is there scope for optimism? Europe's second largest political group, the Socialists & Democrats, could consider a spell in opposition. That would avoid a grand coalition with the group that's currently the largest, the centre right, together with the far right. But that may be wishful thinking. And as for the Greens, their agenda may make it hard to rely on them to take a stand. Hans and Mehreen are joined by Helena Malikova, who moderates this episode, which is part of our Brussels So White series about race and the EU. Helena Malikova is talking in a personal capacity and the views expressed are not attributable to her employer, the European Commission. If you enjoy this episode, be sure to listen to Part 1, How Eurowhiteness Shapes the EU.