Sam Harris speaks with Yascha Mounk about identity politics, skepticism about cancel culture, racial segregation in schools, ideological change on college campuses, rejection of universalism, indoctrination of children, intersectionality, white privilege, racial preferences during Covid, asymmetric advantage of authoritarianism, media coverage of crime and violence, and the role of social media in shaping politics and journalism.
The ideology of identity politics rejects universalism and advocates for a politicized form of discourse analysis.
Derrick Bell's rejection of integration and belief in the permanence of racism laid the foundation for critical race theory.
The expansion of intersectionality has led to a demand for conformity within activist movements and the hijacking of discourse on social issues.
Educational institutions have embraced divisive practices rooted in identity politics, leading to racially segregated classes and the indoctrination of children.
A liberal response to the identity trap emphasizes the recognition of multiple relevant factors and rejects a rigid hierarchy of identity categories.
Deep dives
The Origins of Identity Politics and the Identity Synthesis
The podcast episode explores the origins of identity politics and introduces the concept of the identity synthesis. It explains how the ideology is an amalgamation of ideas from postmodernism, postcolonialism, and critical race theory. The conversation delves into Michel Foucault's skepticism of grand narratives, Edward Said's critique of Western discourse, and Gayatri Spivak's concept of strategic essentialism. It also discusses how the ideology rejects universalism and advocates for a politicized form of discourse analysis. The episode highlights the work of Derrick Bell and his belief in the permanence of racism.
The Critique of Integration and the Permanence of Racism
This section focuses on Derrick Bell's rejection of integration and his perspective on the permanence of racism in the United States. It explains how Bell criticized the civil rights movement's ideal of racial equality, arguing that it served the interests of whites rather than creating genuine progress. Bell suggested that structural change was necessary to address systemic racism, asserting that America remained just as racist as it was in the past. His ideas set the foundation for critical race theory and the rejection of colorblindness.
Understanding Intersectionality and Its Complications
The podcast episode explores the concept of intersectionality, originally introduced by Kimberly Crenshaw. It discusses how intersectionality initially highlighted the interaction of different factors, such as race and gender, in shaping individuals' experiences. However, the term has since been expanded and contorted to encompass standpoint epistemology and the demand for deference to others' political claims based on differing intersections of identity. The conversation identifies how this expansion has led to a demand for conformity within activist movements and the hijacking of discourse on multiple social issues.
The Role of Elites and the Subversion of Social Harmony
The summary explores the impact of elites in perpetuating and promoting the ideas discussed in the podcast episode. It highlights how educational institutions, particularly private schools and universities, have embraced and implemented divisive practices rooted in the identity synthesis ideology. Examples such as racially segregated math classes and advocating for racial consciousness among young children are mentioned. The episode cautions against the detrimental effects of these practices, highlighting how they undermine unity, trust, and cooperation among individuals.
The Primacy of Identity Categories
The identity trap ideology asserts that race, gender, and sexual orientation are the principal lens through which to understand society. It emphasizes the importance of these categories in analyzing social dynamics and political revolutions.
Critique of Universal Values
The identity trap ideology contends that universal values and neutral rules are tools to perpetuate discrimination and bigotry. It argues that these values conceal the reality of social injustice and advocate for dismantling them to explicitly address group-based inequalities.
A Liberal Response
A liberal response to the identity trap includes recognizing the significance of race, gender, and sexual orientation, while also acknowledging that other factors like social class, religion, or moral status may be more relevant in different situations. It emphasizes the importance of empirical analysis and rejects a rigid hierarchy of identity categories. The response also questions the absolutist view of societal explanation, advocating for a nuanced understanding that examines multiple factors in shaping social dynamics.
The Influence of Social Media and Journalism on Politics
Social media has played a significant role in shaping the extreme voices dominating political discourse and promoting a simplistic version of identity-focused ideology. This has led to a capture of institutions and a moral panic on the left. However, there is a growing pushback against the excesses of this ideology, which has caused disillusionment even among those formerly sympathetic to it. The battle between the identity trap and those who criticize it is likely to intensify over the next few decades, leading to a generational debate. While social media has contributed to the situation, it also provides an opportunity for pushing back and recommitting to universal values and neutral rules that have facilitated progress and social equality.
Challenging the Default Setting and Building a Better World
It is crucial to move beyond the default setting of categorizing people solely based on identity and instead focus on a society where opportunities and social status are less dependent on one's group of birth. Progress entails living up to universal values and neutral rules that have paved the way for societal advancements. While acknowledging the existence of injustices, it is important to criticize and engage in a constructive debate about the limitations of identity-focused ideologies without vilifying those who disagree. By persuading and appealing to those who are open to questioning these ideas, it is possible to build a better world based on principled arguments and a vision for a society that benefits all.
Sam Harris speaks with Yascha Mounk about identity politics. They discuss Yascha’s concept of the “identity synthesis,” skepticism about “cancel culture,” racial segregation in schools, the ideological change on college campuses, Michel Foucault and postmodernism, the rejection of universalism, Derrick Bell, Kimberlé Crenshaw, the “permanence of racism,” the indoctrination of children, intersectionality, white privilege, institutional racism, equity vs equality, racial preferences during the Covid pandemic, the asymmetric advantage of authoritarianism, class and elitism, affirmative action, media coverage of crime and violence, social media and the business model of mainstream journalism, and other topics.
Yascha Mounk is the author of The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power in Our Time. He is also a Professor of the Practice of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University, the founder of Persuasion, and the host of The Good Fight podcast.
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