“The greatest blessing for me, from having all these losses, has been the otherworldly, supreme clarity about what’s important to me—about how much I love and how much I am loved.” – Heather Dobbins

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Heather Dobbins, and Jamie-Lee Josselyn discuss personal loss, grief and mourning, including the importance of gestures over words (2:30); the rituals that surround loss and mourning (18:00); the task of facing holidays and difficult moments in the years following a personal loss (30:00); and funerals and bearing witness to the life and death of loved ones (44:00).

Heather Dobbins, is a teacher, poet, and writer of In the Low Houses and River Mouth. Jamie-Lee Josselyn (@jljosselyn), is a creative writing instructor, essayist, and host of the Dead Parents Society podcast.

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How to talk to someone who is grieving the loss of a loved one