In this episode, Matt is joined again by Jacob Ware, a counterterrorism expert with the Council on Foreign Relations and co-author of God, Guns, and Sedition: Far-Right Terrorism in America. They discuss the unsettling question of what far-right extremism, with its proponents feeling emboldened and legitimized by Donald Trump’s election, might look like during his second term in office.

Jacob helps unpack how these movements are evolving, the risks they pose to democratic institutions, and what the next four years might hold for these groups in terms of recruitment, violence, and public visibility of their hateful worldview. It’s a critical conversation we hope you’ll find steers away from hyperbole, focusing instead on historical lessons and current dynamics shaping this moment.

So, grab your coffee—or maybe something stronger—and join us for an in-depth look at the challenges ahead.

Get Jacob’s book God, Guns, and Sedition: Far-Right Terrorism in America:
https://www.cfr.org/book/god-guns-and-sedition
https://www.amazon.com/God-Guns-Sedition-Far-Right-Terrorism/dp/0231211228

Jacob’s work for the Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.cfr.org/expert/jacob-ware

Jacob’s work for Lawfare: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/contributors/jware

Follow Jacob on Bluesky & X
https://bsky.app/profile/jacobware.bsky.social
https://x.com/Jacob_A_Ware

"Understanding the Threats to US Election Security in 2024" by Kat Duffy & Jacob Ware | Council on Foreign Relations

"The Terrorist Threat from the Fractured Far Right" by Bruce Hoffman & Jacob Ware | Lawfare

"The Proud Boys Love a Winner" by Juliette Kayyem | The Atlantic

"Far-right extremists celebrate, see opportunity in second Trump win" by Hannah Allam | The Washington Post

"Pete Hegseth, Trump’s Pentagon pick, sparks alarm over far-right extremism" by Alice Herman | The Guardian

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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD.
Music by Andrew R. Bird