Sam Harris speaks with David Deutsch, a quantum theorist and visiting professor of physics at Oxford University. They discuss the boundary between science and philosophy, the nature of scientific authority, the utility of knowledge, artificial intelligence, moral relativism, the Fermi problem, and other topics. They explore the power of explanation and its connection to controlling the world. They also discuss the potential dangers of artificial general intelligence and concerns about the viability of human civilization. Plus, they touch on the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and quantum computation.
Knowledge is unlimited and has the power to shape the future and solve unforeseeable problems.
The unity of knowledge lies in reason and the ability to explain and control the world through computation.
AI's potential and dangers are dependent on knowledge and culture, and collaboration is key to ethical use.
The Fermi Problem explores the lack of evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations, raising questions about their existence and potential self-destruction.
Deep dives
The power of knowledge and its impact on the future
Knowledge is a powerful tool that has the potential to shape the future and solve unforeseeable problems. The reach and power of human knowledge is unlimited, with the only limitations being the laws of nature. While the future is unpredictable, there is the guarantee that with knowledge, civilization and our species can survive and progress. The growth of knowledge is instrumental in transforming our understanding of the universe. As humans, we have the unique ability to create and apply knowledge, and our potential is not limited by geography or our evolutionary history. The impact of knowledge goes beyond our physical limitations, allowing us to control and reshape the world around us. The possibilities are boundless, and our ability to understand and shape the universe is of universal significance.
The importance of explanation and the unity of knowledge
Explanation is at the core of the scientific enterprise and the pursuit of knowledge. It is through explanations that we gain a deeper understanding of the world and have the power to control it. The powerful connection between explaining the world and controlling it is rooted in the universality of computation. Computation is the fundamental process by which information is processed, and it is a universal mode available to physical objects. With the right knowledge, we can control and transform matter, creating new possibilities. The unity of knowledge is defined by reason, and there is no sharp boundary between science and other rational disciplines like philosophy. While there may be different approaches, the key difference lies in whether knowledge can be tested by experiment or observation. The demarcation between different forms of knowledge is important practically, but reason and unreason should be the focus of distinction.
The potential of humans and the fallacy of parochialism
Humans possess a unique cognitive ability that sets us apart from other species. While parochialism suggests that we are limited in our understanding of the universe due to evolutionary constraints, this view is erroneous. Our cognitive capacity is not determined by hardware alone, but by knowledge. Knowledge is not only the domain of humans but can be instantiated in different ways. The notion that AI or super-intelligent machines could surpass human cognition implies a false dichotomy. The potential and reach of AI are not fundamentally different from our own, as both are dependent on knowledge and culture. The dangers associated with AI lie in the misuse of knowledge, a problem that also applies to humans. The concerns about AI getting away from us are rooted in misunderstanding the nature of knowledge and the power of explanation. By shrouding AI in fear, we hinder the growth of knowledge and collaboration between humans and AI.
AI and the potential for collaboration and growth
AI is often surrounded by fears and misconceptions, but it is important to recognize that AI shares the same fundamental capabilities and limitations as humans. AI is not inherently more dangerous nor more powerful than humans. The growth of AI depends on the growth of knowledge, and the same cultural and ethical considerations that apply to humans apply to AI. Our ability to control AI and prevent divergence lies in the shared values and culture we create. The idea that AI can get away from us is based on a flawed understanding of the power of knowledge and our capacity for collaboration and growth. Rather than fear AI, we should embrace collaboration, working together to ensure the ethical and beneficial use of knowledge for the betterment of society.
The Fermi Problem and the Existence of Extraterrestrial Civilizations
The Fermi Problem addresses the question of why we haven't seen evidence of extraterrestrial civilizations in the galaxy. Given the age and size of the galaxy, it is highly probable that civilizations older than ours exist but no evidence has been found. Possible explanations include different methods of exploration, settling into a state of stasis, or even self-destruction. However, the parameters and assumptions we make about extraterrestrial life are still uncertain.
The Maintenance of Civilization and the Perils of Intelligent Machines
The maintenance of civilization requires constant improvement and the accumulation of moral and scientific knowledge. However, there is a danger in birthing intelligent machines without proper understanding or control. The fear is that advanced civilizations always encounter a fatal fate, referred to as the Great Filter. This may be due to the destructive potential of intelligent machines or other catastrophic events. The challenge lies in ensuring that the knowledge and values necessary for maintaining civilization are widely understood and appreciated.
The Relationship Between Knowledge and Progress
The misconception that there is no such thing as moral progress or objective values is a concern. Some argue that because values cannot be deduced from scientific facts, they are subjective and made up. However, values can be derived from rational examination and critique. Morality is about finding the best course of action based on human well-being and flourishing. Realism with respect to morality acknowledges the existence of objective moral truths and the importance of error correction and improvement of moral knowledge.
Sam Harris speaks with David Deutsch about his book, The Beginning of Infinity. They discuss the boundary between science and philosophy, the nature of scientific authority, the utility of knowledge, artificial intelligence, moral relativism, the Fermi problem, and other topics.
David Deutsch is best known as the founding father of the quantum theory of computation, and for his work on Everettian (multiverse) quantum theory. He is a Visiting Professor of Physics at Oxford University, where he works on “anything fundamental.” At present, that mainly means his proposed constructor theory. He has written two books – The Fabric of Reality and The Beginning of Infinity – aimed at the general reader.
Episodes that have been re-released as part of the Best of Making Sense series may have been edited for relevance since their original airing.
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