Neil Theise on connecting science and spirituality through complexity science | Living Mirrors #115
Jun 30, 2023
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Nei Theise, Professor of pathology at NYU Grossman School of Medicine, discusses connecting science and spirituality through complexity theory. They explore consciousness, Zen Buddhism, boundaries and interconnectedness, and the need to bridge the gap between scientific and spiritual understandings of consciousness. They also reflect on personal journeys, mysticism, resilience, and facing uncertainties.
Complexity theory reveals the interconnectedness and complementarity of existence, emphasizing that contradictory perspectives can coexist.
Living organisms, including humans, exist in the zone of complexity, allowing for creativity, adaptation, and interaction.
Direct experiential practice and contemplation deepen the understanding of the non-dual nature of reality and consciousness.
Deep dives
The Boundaries of Reality and the Unity of Complexity
The podcast episode explores the interconnected nature of reality and the complexity theory through various examples. The speaker discusses how complexity theory reveals the complementarities and interdependencies in different scales of existence. From the cellular level to the atomic level, everything is interconnected and boundaries become fluid. The concept of complementarity is highlighted, emphasizing that contradictory perspectives can both be true simultaneously. The podcast also touches upon the relationship between science, spirituality, and consciousness. The importance of direct experiential practice and contemplation is emphasized, as it allows for a deeper understanding of the non-dual nature of reality. The speaker also reflects on the limitations of language and concepts in describing the boundless nature of consciousness.
Life at the Edge of Chaos
Complexity theory is discussed as a way to understand the self-organization and information processing in living systems. Complexity is described as the zone between chaotic order and perfect order. It is characterized by a limited degree of randomness and unpredictability, which allows for creativity, adaptation, and interaction. The speaker explores how living organisms, including humans, exist in this zone, and how complexity theory can offer insights into consciousness. The interplay between chaos, complexity, and order is examined, highlighting the role of information processing in living systems and the richness of consciousness.
The Dance of Form and Emptiness
The speaker delves into the philosophical concept of form and emptiness, drawing on Zen Buddhism and the heart sutra. The interdependencies and complementarities within existence are explored, using examples like the flock of starlings and the finger. At different scales, boundaries become fluid, and the interconnectedness of all things is evident. The importance of direct experience and contemplative practices is emphasized, as these practices can lead to a deeper understanding of the non-dual nature of reality. The speaker presents the idea that consciousness and mind are manifestations of a vast non-dual mind, which cannot be fully comprehended through concepts and language.
Synthesizing Science and Spirituality
The podcast episode tackles the challenge of integrating scientific perspectives and spiritual insights. The speaker emphasizes the importance of bridging the gap between scientific and spiritual understandings of consciousness and reality. The limitations of language and concepts in capturing the unbounded nature of existence are acknowledged. The speaker shares personal experiences and reflections on the relationship between science and spirituality, highlighting the need for experiential exploration and direct engagement with reality. The intention is to encourage individuals to pursue their own experiences and contemplate the nature of existence beyond conceptual frameworks.
Living on the Edge of Life and Death
The podcast episode touches on the existential challenges of life and death, juxtaposing mass extinction events with personal experiences of sickness and loss. The importance of resilience, adaptability, and finding joy in the face of impermanence is emphasized. The speaker reflects on the impact of personal experiences, including surviving the AIDS era, and how they shape one's perspective on life and mortality. The exploration of consciousness and the interconnectedness of all things is seen as a means of navigating the uncertainty and fragility of existence.
Neil Theise is a professor of pathology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine. Through his scientific research, he has been a pioneer of adult stem cell plasticity which led him to an interest in complexity theory. This interest has resulted in interdisciplinary collaborations in fields such as consciousness studies and the connection between science and spirituality, topics he explores in his new book Notes on Complexity. neiltheiseofficial.com
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