This week, DOGE set its sights and scythe on the Department of Health and Human Services, with a goal of cutting 10,000 federal workers, once again raising the question: what’s their endgame here?

Guest: Makena Kelly, senior writer for WIRED

Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Next: TBD | Where DOGE Is Taking Us