Themes: Grief, Loss, Bereavement, Pain, Mental Health Summary: Join me for a thoughtful conversation with Megan Devine: best-selling author, psychotherapist, and grief advocate. With over 20 years in the field - and deep personal experience of grief - she is the go-to authority for grievers, supporters, and industry professionals. Her pioneering work provides a professional, inclusive, and realistic approach to grief, one that goes beyond pathology-based, reductive models. If you’re currently feeling the deep pain of loss or are looking for ways to support someone who is, this episode is for you. Megan’s book It’s OK that You’re Not OK has sold over 250K copies and is available in 16 languages. New York magazine’s The Strategist named the book in their “Top 16 Grief Books Recommended by Psychologists in 2021.” Her animated short, “How to Help a Grieving Friend,” has been viewed over 70 million times and is used in training programs worldwide. She’s been published in Psychology Today, The New York Times, and The Washington Post and has served as a grief expert for major media outlets, including NPR, iHeartRadio, and the PBS documentary, Speaking Grief. Discover: Megan’s personal experience with grief What not to say to someone who is grieving and how to be truly supportive instead The problematic way society responds to pain and grief and how this contributes to rising loneliness, substance abuse and suicide rates Why looking for the silver lining in a painful experience, while well-intentioned, isn’t helpful 00:00 Intro 01:20 Megan’s story 07:09 How society responds to grief 09:11 You don’t need to find the silver lining 13:03 Movies modeling the happy ending 15:17 The fallacy of suffering as punishment 20:25 The “nobility” of suffering 24:33 The history of dealing with pain 31:21 How medicine handles grief 36:43 Timeline of grief 38:16 Why do we avoid sadness? 43:54 How to actually support someone who’s grieving 47:46 Expanding your idea of what grief is Links: Website | refugeingrief.com & megandevine.co Instagram | @refugeingrief Facebook | @refugeingrief Book | It’s OK That You’re Not OK Podcast | Here After with Megan Devine Sponsors: LMNT | Get a FREE LMNT sample pack with any purchase at drinklmnt.com/createthelove Create the Love Cards | Use code CTLCARDS15 for 15% off at createthelove.com/cards

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“America’s Fair-Haired Boy,” Notorious Mass Murderer, on Brink of Indonesian Presidency