Is it possible that 2024 might have been the year of 'Peak polarisation' around the world and that from hereon in humanity might grow less divided, not more; that we might use technology and social media wisely to bring the best of ourselves to the table, becoming the best we can be in service to life? Audrey Tang certainly thinks so in this wide-deep, mind-expanding conversation, we explore everything from the dual nature of AGI to the potential for liberational education that gives young people a sense of agency, interaction and the common good, to ways to rescue democracy to recipes for sound sleep.

Until recently, Audrey Tang was Digital Minister of Taiwan: the country's first transgender, post-gender, and youngest ever Minister of state. In this role, Tang helped bring the .g0v movement into the mainstream and brought with it the concept that democracy could be a social technology with a focus for good. In 2014, at the time of the Sunflower Revolution in which Tang took part, confidence in the government was measured at 9%. Six years later, it was up to 73%. In that time, there had been shifts in everything from the concept of education, to healthcare, to the provision of broadband, to the online submission of taxes. Then the pandemic hit and, by any measure, Taiwan's response was one of the most flexible, emotionally and politically literate in the world. With no need for lockdown, they kept public confidence high and the death rate low. More recently, the Government began 'pre-bunking' the possibility of foreign interference in the General Election of 2024 and the end result saw all three parties agree that it had been a free and fair election, with a population who felt heard and engaged. How different is this to the western experience of maximal polarisation.

Since the end of May 2024, Audrey Tang has been Taiwan's Ambassador at Large in charge of Cyberspace Governance, instrumental in bringing ideas of a post-polarised world to those who dance amongst the levers of power - and doing so with charm, grace and a fierce, sharp intellect that makes the balance between polarities feel like the only possible way forward.

Audrey is probably not entirely alone in swimming both deep in the world of code and stretching wide across the understanding of what it takes to bring humanity to a place of agency, connection and sufficiency, but I don't know of anyone else who has this as a life's goal. This was the most mind-expanding, heart-firing conversation imaginable, and it was an astonishing joy and an honour. I hope it inspires you to be part of a growing, evolving, re-connected world.

Audrey has been the subject of a documentary: 'Good Enough Ancestor' - at the time of this podcast, the trailer is available, but the full video will be released in early January 2025

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Ep. 118: Anna Case-Winters and Curtis Holtzen