For the first half of the podcast Joe and Richard revisit familiar ground re: wellness and relationships. Joe overshares about working out as only he can. Thankfully his wife does not listen to the pod. At the 30 min mark we dig into the latest news about the end of InVision. Richard shares his thoughts and reflections as someone who experienced peak InVision in many ways and it turns out like most great experiences it's the people who matter more than anything else. Lots of insights into what Richard experiences in his tenure, insight into the powerful Design Leadership Forum, and lessons to be learned from both. There's a lot of episode in this episode!