I’m digging into the vault for a classic replay! I first interviewed Phil Zimmermann, creator of Pretty Good Privacy (PGP), on May 7, 2018. It was Episode 63 (we’re now at 408) and it was entitled “We Now Live in the Golden Age of Surveillance”. In this episode we talk a little about the origins of PGP in the 1990’s and what he feels about the FBI’s claims that we’re “going dark” due to strong end-to-end encrypted communications. I’ve added some new commentary, but the original episode is preserved in all of its original glory!

Interview Notes

• Original Ep63 interview: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2018/05/07/we-now-live-in-the-golden-age-of-surveillance/
• Ep214: Social Media is Ruining Society https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2021/04/05/social-media-is-ruining-society/ 
• Ep243: Through the Past, Privately: PGP Turns 30 https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2021/10/25/through-the-past-privately-pgp-turns-30/ 
• Phil Zimmermann’s website: https://philzimmermann.com/ 

Further Info

• Send me your questions! https://fdsd.me/qna 
• Check out my book, Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons: https://fdsd.me/book 
• Subscribe to the newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter 
• Become a patron! https://www.patreon.com/FirewallsDontStopDragons 
• Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch 
• Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons 
• Support our mission! https://fdsd.me/support 
• Generate secure passphrases! https://d20key.com/#/ 

Table of Contents

Use these timestamps to jump to a particular section of the show.

• 0:00:26: Flashback setup
• 0:02:18: Original intro
• 0:03:20: What drove you to create PGP?
• 0:06:32: Why were you prosecuted for PGP?
• 0:13:08: Isn’t banning cryptography like trying to ban math?
• 0:15:13: What’s the difference between security and privacy?
• 0:17:04: Is it possible to be truly anonymous online today?
• 0:19:06: How is the average person tracking online today?
• 0:21:49: What are the most private ways to communicate online?
• 0:24:44: How do we identify trustworthy attachments?
• 0:25:30: How secure is SMS (texting)?
• 0:29:41: Are we “going dark”?
• 0:32:44: Can we escape mass surveillance?
• 0:36:35: What’s next for you?
• 0:38:09: Original interview wrap-up
• 0:40:38: Flashback wrap-up
• 0:41:00: ShmooCon 2025
• 0:41:56: Looking ahead