In this episode of Force of Nature, Clover sits down with Dr. Elly Hanson - a clinical psychologist who applies lessons from the way we think, and feel, to some of society’s messiest problems. From childhood abuse, to trauma, and more recently, the climate crisis, Elly doesn’t shy away from hard questions. In this conversation, we ask: what do you stand for? Who do you stand for? And who are you willing to stand up against in the fight for what’s right?
Episode notes
01:31 - 06:59) A crash course in climate psychology; the relationship between trauma and denial; and why young people are experiencing eco-anxiety, ecophobia, and feelings of powerlessness in the face of cataclysmic environmental change.
06:49 - 12:15) Intergenerational conflict; understanding why we have emotions and how to harness helpful ones; and holding the tension between despair and optimism.
12:15 - 18:59) How society brings out the worst in us, and how to unhook from bad values; dismantling the survival of the fittest myth; and inviting society to a culture of community, connection and contribution.
18:59 - 28:30) How death is treated in different cultures; the connection between climate denial and our fear of death; and the power of finding something you’d die for, to realise the meaning of life.
28:30 - 41:36) Values strengthened in the face of adversity; welcoming confrontation; and setting aside our differences to make society better for everybody.
Top quotes
“With whatever action we decide to pursue, we need to go into it completely unshackled from expectation or unshackled from outcome, because it's just the right thing to do.” - Clover
“All that we do have is our soul, and we can give our soul, and contribute to being a part of the universe. And that's all that we can really do in the end. And for me - that is a life worth living.” - Elly
“Sometimes living in a very values-led way can mean that you are challenged. We will come across confrontation, and if we don't, then we're kind of not in the right space because the status quo isn't values-led - so let's bring on that challenge.” - Elly
“Even if climate change was not happening, we've got a problem. We've got the powerful oppressing those with less power, we've got huge amounts of human suffering and abuse, and relationship problems, and poverty, and inequality, and mental health problems…. so maybe climate change is the crisis that we need to stand up to.” - Elly
“Both despair and optimism allow you to sit on the sidelines. Hope is that place in the messy middle, where you're able to hold the tension between confronting how we all have been complicit in creating these problems, while also entertaining another future that is possible.” - Clover
About the guest(s)
Elly Hanson is an independent Clinical Psychologist and researcher working across diverse sectors to apply psychology to some of society’s most pressing problems. She has undertaken a variety of research studies with young people and worked to apply their insights to policy and practice. Elly is a consultant to the PSHE Association, supporting evidence-based life education that foregrounds autonomy, values and good relationships.
Resources
“Hope in the Dark” by Rebecca Solnit
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28048.Hope_in_the_Dark “The Inner Level” by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40163368-the-inner-level?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=mlP30yeeau&rank=1 “The Righteous Mind - Why Good People Disagree About Politics and Religion” by Jonathan Haidt
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11324722-the-righteous-mindThe ‘Just World’ theory
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-just-world-phenomenon-2795304Terror management theory
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fear-death-and-politics/ About the host
Clover Hogan is a 21-year-old climate activist, researcher on eco-anxiety, and the founder of Force of Nature - a youth-led organisation empowering Gen Z to step up, rather than shut down, in the face of the climate crisis. She has worked alongside the world’s leading authorities on sustainability, within the boardrooms of Fortune 500 companies, and inside classrooms across the UK.
Clover serves as a trustee to Global Action Plan, and is on the advisory boards of the National Community Lottery's Climate Action Fund and student-led #TeachTheFuture campaign.
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clover@momentum-starts-here.orgFind out more
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With special thanks to
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