Ep. 293 – Where Souls Meet, With Kirtan by Jai Uttal

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Dec 15, 2025

Jai Uttal, a Grammy-nominated kirtan musician known for his soulful chanting, joins Ram Dass for a transformative discussion. They delve into the nature of change, using Shiva as a symbol of transformation and exploring how letting go of ego can unveil our true selves. Ram Dass shares insights on merging with the Beloved, while Uttal leads a powerful Sita Ram kirtan, igniting collective joy and devotion. The conversation emphasizes bhakti as a heart-centered practice that deepens our connection with the divine in ourselves and others.

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ANECDOTE

Gandhi Choosing Truth Over Consistency

Ram Dass recounts Gandhi choosing truth over consistency when a march risked turning negative.
He uses this story to illustrate the godly aspect of change and the courage to act truthfully.

INSIGHT

Kirtan As Heart Technology

Devotional chanting (kirtan) is a technology of the heart that transforms identification through love rather than force.
Ram Dass says singing opens the heart and shifts self-concept from ego to soul.

INSIGHT

Bhakti As Relationship Therapy

Bhakti is a relationship therapy: loving the divine opens the heart and leads toward merging.
Devotional love pulls the heart like gravity toward union with the beloved.

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In this special December treat, featuring kirtan from Jai Uttal, Ram Dass speaks about opening to change and merging with the Beloved.

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This episode of Here and Now comes from an event at Spirit Rock Meditation Center on July 31, 2000.

Ram Dass begins by exploring how Shiva is the aspect of God that rules over change. He talks about changing our self-concept from identification with our egos to identification with our souls. Devotional chanting, or kirtan, is one way to work on transforming ourselves.
Speaking about merging with the Beloved, Ram Dass shares how his relationship with his guru evolved after Neem Karoli Baba left his body. He talks about the place of joy that exists inside all of us. That’s the yum-yum place.
Jai Uttal takes over and leads a rousing kirtan to connect us all to that yum-yum place. He begins by explaining the chant: “Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Jai Sita Ram. Sita, the infinite Goddess. Ram, the infinite God. Jai or Jaya, praise or victory.”

About Jai Uttal:

Jai Uttal is a Grammy-nominated sacred music composer, recording artist, multi-instrumentalist, and ecstatic vocalist. Having traveled extensively in India, he met many great saints and singers, and Bhakti Yoga became his personal path. Jai has been leading, teaching, and performing kirtan around the world for nearly 50 years. He creates a safe environment for people to open their hearts and voices. Kirtan Camp with Jai Uttal starts on January 25, 2026. Nurture the seeds of love and take a journey into the healing power of sound. Sign up now.

About Ram Dass:

Ram Dass’s spirit has been a guiding light for generations, carrying millions along on the journey. Ram Dass teaches that through the Bhakti practice of unconditional love, we can all connect with our true nature. Through these teachings, Ram Dass has shared a little piece of his guru, Maharaj-ji, with all who have listened to him. Learn more at ramdass.org.

“You know those cherries, chocolate-covered cherries? They’re like hard on the outside, but they’re soft and yum, yum, yum inside. We are just chocolate-covered cherries. That’s all we are. And that yum, yum, yum, yum, that’s the joy, that’s the bhakti. Yum, yum, yum, yum. Because we meet each other in the yum-yum place.” – Ram Dass

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