Luisa and Keiran on free will, and the consequences of never feeling enduring guilt or shame
Sep 27, 2024
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In this engaging discussion, Keiran Harris, co-host of 80k After Hours, shares his intriguing insights on free will and the ramifications of experiencing little guilt or shame. Together with Luisa Rodriguez, they explore how these emotions shape morality and personal choices. They ponder whether reduced guilt would lead people to become worse friends or citizens. The conversation also touches on 'jerk syndrome,' the nuances of love beyond agency, and practical tips for navigating heavy emotions with compassion.
The podcast explores the illusion of free will, suggesting our choices are often influenced by biological predispositions rather than true agency.
Listeners are encouraged to reconsider guilt and shame as motivators, advocating for a mindset shift towards gratitude to enhance personal fulfillment.
The discussion highlights the importance of compassion for ourselves and others, emphasizing understanding the context behind unkind actions to foster empathy and forgiveness.
Deep dives
Understanding Jerk Syndrome
The concept of 'Jerk Syndrome' is introduced as a metaphor for understanding why people behave poorly due to neurological conditions. It highlights the idea that people's actions might be influenced by factors beyond their control, such as biological predispositions or mental health issues. This comparison provokes a discussion on the nature of anger towards individuals who may act unkindly, emphasizing that such anger can often stem from a misunderstanding of their circumstances. The speakers challenge listeners to reconsider the attribution of blame to individuals for actions that might be the result of their innate traits.
Exploring Free Will and Its Implications
The podcast delves into the philosophical debate surrounding free will, specifically questioning whether individuals truly have the ability to choose their actions. One of the speakers shares a transformation in his views on free will, suggesting that people regularly operate under an illusion of choice while their actions are governed by prior causes. This line of thinking posits that feelings of guilt and shame arise from a misplaced sense of personal agency. By examining case studies like a serial killer's brain tumor, the discussion illustrates how our environment and biology significantly impact behavior, minimizing the notion of true free will.
Navigating Guilt, Shame, and Personal Agency
The speakers address the impact of guilt and shame on personal behavior, enumerating how these feelings can often lead to detrimental outcomes. They discuss how prolonged experience with feelings such as guilt can distort an individual's perception of themselves and their abilities to enact change. By examining these emotions critically, they propose the idea that accepting one’s inherent traits can foster a healthier mindset free of harsh self-judgment. This paradigm shift allows individuals to recognize that their reactions are not purely a matter of choice, leading to a more compassionate understanding of themselves and others.
Guilt as a Poor Motivation
There is a critical evaluation of guilt as a motivator in one's life, where it is identified as a corrosive force that may lead to burnout and dissatisfaction. The discussion suggests that people often work harder due to guilt, which can have negative implications on their overall productivity and mental health. Instead, the speakers advocate that adopting gratitude and acceptance can lead to more sustainable motivation and fulfillment. By reframing the way individuals approach their personal goals and responsibilities, it becomes possible to operate from a place of joy rather than dread.
The Role of Compassion in Judgment
The speakers encourage a shift towards compassion when dealing with others' wrongdoings, suggesting that recognizing the shared human experience allows for more empathetic responses. They highlight that understanding the context behind someone's hurtful actions can diminish feelings of anger or resentment. By viewing individuals through the lens of shared struggle rather than moral failing, one can foster forgiveness and kindness. This perspective not only helps in mitigating negative feelings towards others but also promotes self-compassion in facing one’s own shortcomings.
Cultivating Acceptance of Circumstances
A significant focus of the podcast is on the importance of acceptance regarding life's circumstances and one's own traits. The speakers discuss how acknowledging luck in both good and bad experiences can foster gratitude and reduce self-imposed pressure. They explore the notion that people often strive towards unattainably high standards that do not account for biological and environmental influences. By cultivating acceptance of who one is and the circumstances one finds themselves in, individuals can navigate life with a sense of peace and purpose, reducing feelings of guilt and enabling healthier emotional experiences.
In this episode from our second show, 80k After Hours, Luisa Rodriguez and Keiran Harris chat about the consequences of letting go of enduring guilt, shame, anger, and pride.
Keiran’s views on free will, and how he came to hold them
What it’s like not experiencing sustained guilt, shame, and anger
Whether Luisa would become a worse person if she felt less guilt and shame — specifically whether she’d work fewer hours, or donate less money, or become a worse friend
Whether giving up guilt and shame also means giving up pride
The implications for love
The neurological condition ‘Jerk Syndrome’
And some practical advice on feeling less guilt, shame, and anger
Who this episode is for:
People sympathetic to the idea that free will is an illusion
People who experience tons of guilt, shame, or anger
People worried about what would happen if they stopped feeling tonnes of guilt, shame, or anger
Who this episode isn’t for:
People strongly in favour of retributive justice
Philosophers who can’t stand random non-philosophers talking about philosophy
Non-philosophers who can’t stand random non-philosophers talking about philosophy
Chapters:
Cold open (00:00:00)
Luisa's intro (00:01:16)
The chat begins (00:03:15)
Keiran's origin story (00:06:30)
Charles Whitman (00:11:00)
Luisa's origin story (00:16:41)
It's unlucky to be a bad person (00:19:57)
Doubts about whether free will is an illusion (00:23:09)
Acting this way just for other people (00:34:57)
Feeling shame over not working enough (00:37:26)
First person / third person distinction (00:39:42)
Would Luisa become a worse person if she felt less guilt? (00:44:09)
Feeling bad about not being a different person (00:48:18)
Would Luisa donate less money? (00:55:14)
Would Luisa become a worse friend? (01:01:07)
Pride (01:08:02)
Love (01:15:35)
Bears and hurricanes (01:19:53)
Jerk Syndrome (01:24:24)
Keiran's outro (01:34:47)
Get more episodes like this by subscribing to our more experimental podcast on the world’s most pressing problems and how to solve them: type "80k After Hours" into your podcasting app.
Producer: Keiran Harris Audio mastering: Milo McGuire Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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