In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes back Jonathan Lu & Shauheen Etminan, founders of VCENNA and the supplement line Ancestral Magi.

Find episode links, summary, and transcript here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-222-jonathan-lu-shauheen-etminan-phd

Following up from their first episode, the duo unpack the neurobiology of oneirogens (dream-inducing substances).

Delve into the dreamlike realms of consciousness as Jonathan and Shauheen explore the unique effects of beta-Carbolines and Syrian Rue, comparing them to classic psychedelics like psilocybin, LSD, Ayahuasca, and Iboga. Uncover the secrets of lucid dreaming and the ancient traditions that inspired them.

Visit Ancestral Magi's website to learn more about their legal, psychoactive formulations based on ancient potions. Use code TW10 at checkout for 10% off their unique supplements. https://ancestralmagi.com/

Jonathan Lu:

Jonathan Lu is an engineer who has been studying 2000-year-old Chinese texts in search of compounds, formulations, and rituals that have been lost to history. Their team applies modern neurophysiological and computational tools to understand scientifically what our ancestors discovered millennia ago, and from which they developed the nootropic formulations for Magi Ancestral Supplements.

Jonathan is a proud father of three daughters and has visited 66 countries. He is a graduate of Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business, and received a B.S. in Chemical & Biomolecular Engineering from Cornell University.

Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D.

Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D. is an intuitive activator and repeat founder with a passion for creating impactful products and platforms that embody wellness, abundance, authenticity, reciprocity, and inclusion. He has a track record of working in multiple industries including psychedelics for mental wellness and cognitive growth, which are aligned with his life story as a founder and mission as an autotelic entrepreneur.

Shauheen holds a MSc and PhD in Chemical Engineering from the University of Calgary. He is a secular mystic who practices Sufi Dervish whirling meditation.

Highlights:

Rumi, Sufism, and the traditions of Sufi Whirling. Exploring the unique dreamlike effects of beta-Carbolines and Syrian Rue. Ayahuasca vs. Haoma (speculated to include Syrian Rue). Iboga as an oneirogen. Research into the impacts of beta-Carbolines on memory. Considering the preparation and integration for oneirogens like beta-Carbolines. Lucid dreaming, archetypes, and the sacredness of dreamtime in indigenous traditions. The neurobiology and subjective effects of beta-Carbolines vs. classic psychedelics. Unique potions and stacks featuring beta-Carbolines. VCENNA’s current drug research.

Ancestral Magi's website: https://ancestralmagi.com/

Learn more about our flagship 10-month training program for coaches who want to integrate psychedelic modalities into their practice: https://thethirdwave.co/ccp

01/24/2025 | World News Roundup Late Edition