The Joe Rogan Experience

#2419 - John Lisle

107 snips
Nov 27, 2025
John Lisle, a historian and professor specializing in the history of science, dives deep into the chilling world of MKUltra, where he reveals CIA's mind control ambitions and covert operations. He discusses bizarre tactics like Operation Midnight Climax, involving CIA-run brothels, and the often tragic experiences of victims like Mary Morrow. Lisle also explores the ethical implications of addiction studies and dissects the dark minds behind these programs, emphasizing the need for accountability and oversight in the intelligence community.
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INSIGHT

MKUltra Was Broad And Unchecked

  • MKUltra was a decades-long CIA program that ran widespread, unaccountable mind and drug experiments on U.S. citizens.
  • Many perpetrators faced no meaningful consequences while victims suffered lasting harm.
ANECDOTE

Discovery Through OSS Archives

  • John Lisle discovered Sidney Gottlieb's link to earlier OSS experiments while researching Stanley Lovell for his PhD.
  • That archival connection turned his focus from OSS R&D to writing Project Mind Control on MKUltra.
INSIGHT

Drugs Used As Covert Tools

  • The CIA pursued truth drugs, discrediting, and assassination plots using chemicals as tools of covert action.
  • Plans ranged from dosing leaders with LSD to sabotaging appearances using depilatories and doctored images.
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