The Joe Rogan Experience #2419 - John Lisle
John Lisle, a historian and professor specializing in the history of science, dives deep into the chilling world of MKUltra, where he reveals CIA's mind control ambitions and covert operations. He discusses bizarre tactics like Operation Midnight Climax, involving CIA-run brothels, and the often tragic experiences of victims like Mary Morrow. Lisle also explores the ethical implications of addiction studies and dissects the dark minds behind these programs, emphasizing the need for accountability and oversight in the intelligence community.
02:44:44
MKUltra Was Broad And Unchecked
- MKUltra was a decades-long CIA program that ran widespread, unaccountable mind and drug experiments on U.S. citizens.
- Many perpetrators faced no meaningful consequences while victims suffered lasting harm.
Discovery Through OSS Archives
- John Lisle discovered Sidney Gottlieb's link to earlier OSS experiments while researching Stanley Lovell for his PhD.
- That archival connection turned his focus from OSS R&D to writing Project Mind Control on MKUltra.
Drugs Used As Covert Tools
- The CIA pursued truth drugs, discrediting, and assassination plots using chemicals as tools of covert action.
- Plans ranged from dosing leaders with LSD to sabotaging appearances using depilatories and doctored images.
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Intro
00:00 • 13sec
How John Lisle Became Interested in MKUltra
00:13 • 2min
Origins: OSS, Stanley Lovell and Early Truth-Drug Work
02:08 • 2min
CIA Motives: Mind Control, Interrogation, Castro Plots
04:20 • 5min
Ad break
09:33 • 2min
Early Drug Experiments and Military LSD Tests
11:29 • 8min
MKUltra Structure: 149 Subprojects and Lexington Farm
19:50 • 3min
Heroin, Addiction and Interrogation Logic
22:45 • 3min
The Power of Suggestion: Truth-Drugs vs. Placebo
25:22 • 3min
Operation Midnight Climax and CIA Brothels
28:29 • 8min
Ad break
36:05 • 2min
Ewen Cameron and Psychic Driving
37:35 • 6min
Mary Morrow and Victims' Trauma
43:52 • 6min
Legal Aftermath: Depositions and Settlements
49:23 • 5min
Profiles of Perpetrators: Gottlieb, George White, Jolly West
53:58 • 7min
Document Discoveries and the Rockefeller Commission
01:00:40 • 6min
Secrecy, Oversight Failures, and the Vicious Cycle
01:06:41 • 7min
Politics, Congress, and Institutional Incentives
01:13:58 • 11min
Human Psychology, Rationalization and Science
01:24:44 • 26min
Ad break
01:50:15 • 16sec
Mind Control vs. Cult Techniques
01:50:31 • 7min
Cult Case Study: Bodhi Tree and The Knowing
01:57:28 • 7min
Memory, Suggestion, and False Recollections
02:04:02 • 8min
Disinformation, Censorship Through Noise and Foreign Propaganda
02:11:50 • 10min
Ad break
02:21:40 • 10sec
Modern Media, Social Platforms and Oversight Role
02:21:50 • 13min
Historical Oddities: Bat Bombs and Weapon Proposals
02:35:16 • 6min
Why MKUltra Began: Incapacitation as 'Ethical' Warfare
02:41:14 • 2min
Reflections, Book Notes, and Adaptation News
02:43:21 • 16sec
Outro
02:43:36 • 37sec
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John Lisle has a Ph.D. in history from the University of Texas, where he is now a professor of the history of science. His two books on the intelligence community are "The Dirty Tricks Department" and "Project Mind Control: Sidney Gottlieb, the CIA, and the Tragedy of MKULTRA."
www.johnlislehistorian.com
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250338747/projectmindcontrol/
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