Future Histories International

Matt Huber & Kohei Saito on Growth, Progress and Left Imaginaries

Jan 19, 2025

Join Matt Huber, a geography professor and author focused on climate change and class struggles, and Kohei Saito, a Marx scholar advocating for degrowth communism. They dive into how Marx's ideas can reshape socialism amidst ecological crises. Expect discussions on the pitfalls of GDP, critiques of consumerism, and the necessity of ecological approaches to energy. They highlight the importance of collective action for justice, the redefinition of progress, and the search for joy in the fight against climate change and social inequality.

00:00

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Episode guests

Kohei Saito

Matt Huber

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Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Kohei Saito argues for degrowth communism, emphasizing a transition from capitalist technologies to eco-socialism for sustainability.

Matt Huber advocates for a nuanced understanding of growth, recognizing both positive sectors like renewable energy and potential negative impacts.

Both speakers highlight the importance of class struggle and democratic economic planning to achieve ecological justice and societal equity.

Deep dives

The Debate Between Eco-Modernism and Degrowth Communism

The podcast features a productive discussion between Matt Huber and Kohei Saito, both of whom explore the contrasting yet overlapping ideas of Marxist eco-modernism and degrowth communism. Kohei presents the notion of degrowth communism, arguing that to achieve sustainability, society must transition from capitalist technology to eco-socialism, highlighting Marx's later thoughts on the destructiveness of capitalist technologies. In contrast, Matt emphasizes the potential for technological advancements within a reformed capitalist framework to address ecological issues, focusing on how industrialization has historically led to improvements in living standards, health, and productivity. Both agree on the necessity of democratic economic planning in envisioning a socialist future that balances human needs and ecological sustainability.

Intro

2min

Exploring Degrowth Communism and Marx's Vision of Post-Capitalism

3min

Energy Transition and Ecological Challenges

5min

Rethinking Economic Growth and Sustainability

32min

Reimagining Socialism Amidst the Climate Crisis

13min

Redefining Progress and Wealth in Socialist Contexts

23min

Revisiting Historical Materialism

12min

Finding Joy Amidst Struggles for a Better Future

5min

Kohei Saito and Matt Huber discuss degrowth communism, socialist ecomodernism and their respective views on growth, natural limits, technology and progress.

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If you are interested in democratic economic planning, these resources might be of help:

Democratic planning – an information website

https://www.democratic-planning.com/

Sorg, C. & Groos, J. (eds.)(2025). Rethinking Economic Planning. Competition & Change Special Issue Volume 29 Issue 1.

https://journals.sagepub.com/toc/ccha/29/1

Groos, J. & Sorg, C. (2025). Creative Construction - Democratic Planning in the 21st Century and Beyond. Bristol University Press. [for a review copy, please contact: amber.lanfranchi[at]bristol.ac.uk]

https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/creative-construction

International Network for Democratic Economic Planning

https://www.indep.network/

Democratic Planning Research Platform:

https://www.planningresearch.net/

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Shownotes

Kohei Saito at University of Tokyo:

https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/people/k0001_04217.html

Saito is chair of the “Beyond Capitalism: War Economy and Democratic Planning” Program at The New Institute:

https://thenew.institute/en/programs/beyond-capitalism-war-economy-and-democratic-planning

Matt Huber at Syracuse University: