The Collapse of the Human Empire - Paul Kingsnorth | Maiden Mother Matriarch 102
Aug 7, 2024
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Paul Kingsnorth, an author known for 'Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist' and contributions to The Abbey of Misrule, shares his transformative journey from radical environmentalism to Orthodox Christianity. He discusses the contradictions in modern ideologies and the spiritual crisis that underpins political and environmental challenges. The conversation dives into modernity's limits, the relationship between declining birth rates and wealth, and the impact of technology on society. Kingsnorth critiques how environmentalism can inadvertently exacerbate class divisions.
Paul Kingsnorth's transition from radical environmentalism to Orthodox Christianity underscores the limitations of modern ideologies amidst fears of civilizational collapse.
The conversation critiques the reliance on technology as a misguided solution to environmental issues, emphasizing community-led approaches as essential for sustainable change.
A decline in religious values is linked to cultural disintegration, suggesting that spiritual communities offer meaningful support during societal challenges.
Deep dives
Transition from Environmentalism to Spirituality
The guest discusses his evolution from a radical environmentalist to an Orthodox Christian, highlighting a common theme of recognizing the limitations of modernity. Initially motivated by a passion for nature, he notes that his early activism sought to challenge and reverse the damage caused by industrialization and fossil fuel consumption. Over time, he observed that mainstream environmentalism was becoming increasingly unrealistic, as it tried to sustain modernity through superficial fixes like renewable energy. His shift towards spirituality offered a broader perspective on the supposed inevitability of environmental collapse, hinting at a deeper moral and cultural crisis in modern society.
Inherent Unsustainability of Modernity
The discussion revolves around the inherent contradictions within modern ideological frameworks, particularly progressivism and secularism, which are deemed fundamentally unsustainable. The analogy of a 'giant pretense' captures the belief that society can transition to a sustainable industrial economy without significant sacrifices. The guest critiques the narrative of endless growth, citing the impracticality of political solutions underpinned by principles of perpetual economic expansion. By encouraging self-reflection and acknowledging uncomfortable truths, the conversation stresses the importance of confronting the unsustainable nature of contemporary systems.
Crisis of Faith in Technology
Technological dependence emerges as a central theme in the conversation, with the guest arguing that society's faith in technology as a solution to environmental issues is deeply misguided. He asserts that the current reliance on technology for solutions only perpetuates a cycle of creation and destruction, leading to greater ecological harm. The example of the Green Revolution illustrates how well-intentioned innovations created unforeseen consequences that further complicated environmental challenges. The necessity for community-led, locally-focused approaches to assess and possibly reject harmful technologies is emphasized as a path forward.
Political Reality of Environmentalism
The dialogue highlights the dissonance between political rhetoric and practical realities regarding environmentalism. The inability of any political party to propose genuinely sustainable measures exposes the fundamental contradictions in how societies view growth, resource allocation, and environmental stewardship. The displacement of working-class people through environmental regulations, like ULEZ in London, showcases the class warfare inherent in the green agenda. Ultimately, the conversation suggests that real change must come from grassroots, local movements rather than top-down political mandates.
The Role of Religion and Community
The guest posits that the decline of religion directly correlates with cultural disintegration and declining birth rates, framing this loss as a crisis of meaning in modernity. He argues that religious communities inherently encourage family growth and foster connections that can support resilience in a collapsing society. The commentary focuses on the need for a return to spiritual and communal values, advocating that belief systems that transcend individualism can provide a sense of purpose. The conversation concludes that communities centered around religious or shared values may be better equipped to navigate the impending challenges of a long-term societal descent.
My guest today is Paul Kingsnorth, author of The Abbey of Misrule Substack, and of many books, including 'Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist.'
We spoke about Paul's journey from environmentalism to Orthodox Christianity, the relationship between Christian millenarianism and the fear of civilizational collapse, the attraction of zombie apocalyp…
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