54 Were the Spartans Proto-Fascist Losers? w/ Bret Devereaux
Jan 1, 2024
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Military historian challenges traditional view of Spartans as elite warriors, debunking myths perpetuated by popular culture. Examines Spartan military prowess, training methods, governance, and treatment of Helots. Explores societal impact of Spartan conquest and shift towards austerity.
Spartans focused more on obedience and conformity than combat training.
Scholars debate the mistreatment of Helots in Spartan society.
Sparta had a high slave population, making it one of the least free ancient states.
Deep dives
Debate Over Sparta's History
There is a debate about the traditional image of Spartans as fearless warriors being challenged by recent scholars who claim it is a lie. Scholars argue Spartans were not remarkable militarily and were poor role models. The debate centers on claims that Spartans were not well trained for battle and habitually murdered their slaves. Despite conflicting views, scholars rely on sources to support their arguments.
Challenging Traditional Beliefs on Spartan Military Training
Contrary to popular belief, there is evidence suggesting Spartans did not extensively train for battle as expected. Sources indicate the focus of Spartan training was more on fitness, obedience, and conformity rather than honing combat skills. Scholars point out the lack of evidence for specialized military training in the agogae, raising questions about the traditional view of Spartan warrior prowess and training methods.
Controversy Surrounding Spartan Treatment of Helots
Scholars debate the treatment of Helots in Sparta, suggesting a uniquely unfree society where the Helots faced harsh conditions. Plutarch's mention of the cryptaea and the alleged killing of Helots raises questions about the violence and oppression within Spartan society. While the evidence is limited, various sources hint at the mistreatment of Helots, sparking scholarly discussion and uncertainty.
Population Demographics and Slavery in Sparta
Estimates suggest that a significant percentage of Spartans were enslaved, with Helots comprising a majority of the population. Comparisons with other ancient societies like Roman Italy and Athens reveal Sparta as one of the least free states due to its high slave population. Scholars rely on census data, military deployments, and historical accounts to reconstruct Sparta's demographics and unique societal structure.
Factors Influencing Spartan Austerity and Social Structure
The shift towards Spartan austerity and regimented society is linked to the conquest of Messenia and the subsequent rise of a large class of Helots. The extreme class solidarity among Spartiate elite emerges from the conquest, leading to an austere society. The conquest of Messenia is seen as a pivotal moment shaping Sparta's social structure and influencing the development of Spartan austerity.
Bret Devereux is a military historian at North Carolina State University and author of the recent viral article "Spartans Were Losers: The US Military's Admiration of a Proto-Fascist City-State is Based on Bad History." He joins us to explain why he thinks that the traditional image of Sparta as an egalitarian society of warrior badasses is a lie. You can find his blog, where he writes extensively on Sparta, here: https://acoup.blog/2019/08/16/collections-this-isnt-sparta-part-i-spartan-school/
