In the following episode of The Immeasurable Podcast, we interview Rupert Spira.

Rupert Spira is a well known author and public speaker in the non-dual contemplative tradition. He has written many books including Being Aware of Being Aware, The Nature of Consciousness and The Ashes of Love. For more on Rupert's work click here.

In this episode, Jaap Sluijter and Henry Fischer explore Rupert's work and how it directly relates to the teachings of J. Krishnamurti:

• Introduction by Henry Fischer :25
• Rupert Spira on his early experience with J. Krishnamurti 1:05
• Jaap Sluijter talks about Rupert's podcast with Sam Harris and a focus on semantics and perennial questions 2:25
• Jaap asks about emotionality in the sense of "wanting to find comfort in a true self" 4:41
• Rupert talks about the search for happiness not being a trap but instead a clue to who we really are 7:10
• Jaap responds and says Krishnamurti says that,  'as long as there is still conflict the "other" doesn't come into being' 8:52
• Rupert says, "that which truly IS never comes into being" 10:29
• Jaap asks, "how do you approach that?" and "wouldn't the mind have to be free to come in contact with this?" 11:35
• Rupert gives an analogy of John Smith and King Lear to illustrate what he is saying 12:00
• Jaap asks about self-recognition or remembering oneself and how it is different from "remembering" where you put your shoes 16:40
• Rupert explains that this remembering is vertical (going within) and not along the horizontal plane of memory 17:15
• Jaap goes back to emotionality and wonders if there is this desire for one's "true self" which may be a kind of illusion and not an actual reality 18:28
• Rupert says there is something more beautiful prior to all the seeking and that who we are is prior to any kind of seeking 19:38
• Jaap asks, "does truth come into being via positiva or via negativa?" 21:00
• Rupert says all that is required is the removal of ignoring what we truly are and Rupert says this is what Krishnamurti meant when he said, "the removal of fear" 21:48
• Jaap again asks if this comes from removing the false or if it is instead important to try to see what is true 22:27
• Rupert says they are two different ways of looking at the same thing 23:22
• Jaap asks "how do we know it is true" 25:52
• Rupert says "all illusions have a reality to them" 27:00
• Jaap says Krishnamurti says "it's only when you don't seek a way out you see the suffering fully" 31:51
• Rupert agrees and asks if we were instead to turn and face the suffering, what would the experience of accepting suffering feel like? 32:27
• Henry points out the difficulty with turning toward something without motive 33:14
• Rupert asks us to do the experiment of turning toward suffering with no escape and says the common word for it is "happiness" 33:28
• Henry brings the King Lear analogy back up and asks if in this recognition of our true nature is mediated by the senses at all 35:55
• Rupert says his use of the word "knowing" has nothing to do with conceptual knowledge but instead he uses interchangeably with awareness 37:35
• Jaap doubts this sense "I am" because he says it has continuity 41:36
• Rupert responds and asks what is the reality of the illusion of continuity in your experience? 42:21
• Jaap asks if the "desire to be" might bring about this continuity 43:13

This is the limit on notes permitted for this episode. To see more notes go to our YouTube channel "Krishnamurti Educational Center" to see a video of this podcast on or after March 22nd, 2021.

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