Yascha Mounk and Eitan Hersh discuss the importance of strategic political action that focuses on goals and outcomes.

Eitan Hersh is Professor of Political Science at Tufts University, focusing on U.S. elections and civic participation. His latest book is Politics Is for Power: How to Move Beyond Political Hobbyism, Take Action, and Make Real Change.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Eitan Hersh discuss how to engage with politics in ways likely to bring about meaningful change; how political hobbyism tends to coincide with misperceptions about voter habits and the purposes of political rhetoric; and how to more successfully get students to engage with challenging ideas on campus.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity .

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Episode 21: is AI an optional risk? lessons in risk analysis from a road trip to the Society of Risk Analysis conference